Germany vs Japan

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the lancaster kicks ass said:
apparently at one point the germans were sending the japs a copy of the plans for their A-bomb when they knew they'd loose the war, but it never got to japan...........

At the end of the war the Germans sent a large quantity to Japan to create a "Dirty Bomb" for use against the US. The war ended and the sub surrendered to the US with the material still aboard - saved San Fransico!
 
There is still one major problem with that. The material has to actually get to the US in some way. It would be a very difficult journey from Japan, even its captured islands to the coast of the US with the danger of being destroyed on the way. So far as is known if this plan was to succeed, there must have been enclosed with the shipment, the plans to the Amerika bomber, otherwise there wouldn't have been the necessary range.
 
What a question!
But just for fun, here we go:
A) Germans never seriously intended to build a nuke. Heisenberg did miscalculated the critical mass. Right, there were more scientist in germany which knew about this error, but nothing happans. Hitler cuts down the fundings of nuclear research -but they managed to come VERY close to an working nuclear power plant. As the Farm Hall reports indicate that a correct solution of a nuke was found in within a single week of intensive discussion. However, some doubt that Heisenberg wanted to build a bomb -more a weapon of beeing- for Nazis. Others did suceed in a even more horrible weapon project: From 1943 on IG Fareben tried to make c. Botulinum suitable for bomb use. Botulinum is the most dangerous material known to mankind (except maybe physical anti energy). It was the first biological-weapon. 1000 g would be -theoretically- enough to kill millions of people. B) How could germans deploy troops to japan mainland? Against a much superior japanese fleet? (remember all the carriers and -yamato- class battleships)
No way, that couldn´t happen. Simple Destruction only.
 
Hi Delcyros welcome on board
I think the first biological weapons where employed in the middle ages during sieges it was quite common to lob rotten animal or combatants carcasses over the walls to try to spread maladies .
If the Germans didn't intend to build an A bomb how come they had such a big heavy water programme. somehow I couldn't imagine Adolf not wanting to have such a power at his command and I don't mean to produce electricity
 
 
Could be a short trip from Wladiwostok to Japan, agreed. But
1.) You have to bring your tanks to that point (around 10000 miles with the
transsibirian railway-which was in the 40´s the only way to transport heavy vehicles)
2.) You need ships (no plane could carry a Panther or Tiger)
3.) You need to protect them against
A) Japans superior cruiser and destroyer fleet (Long Lance torps.!!!)
B) Japans superior (in numbers) air force operating from the homeland
C) Kamikaze
D) Submarines
E) Carrier based strikes
F) Heavy surface Forces, superior in numbers and Quality
And remember, it takes a lot of time to build a fleet! There was no possibility for Germany to support large armed forces that far away with all it needs: ammo, fuel, food, resupply and it would be hard, if not impossible to control strike ops from Germany. (Support by air wasn´t possible for Stalingrad, not to mention a supply line across Sibiria)
 
Still, I'm quite convinced them germans would have beaten them japanese. In 46 the japânese would have had the kikka and rocket planes, and the germans would have rocket planes too the faster me262, ta184, he162, ar 234, a jet driven dive bomber and the first long range stealth flying wing bombers (the B2 was inspired by this design). As for pistons fighters, the japanese had formidable planes but they lacked HP's, except for the ki-84 maybe, to compete with ta-152's or do-335's. And I do think Hitler wouldn't have minded to obliterate japan with atomic bombs if he had had them.
 

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Just an aside, the B-2 was not inspired by the German flying wing. Jack Northrop had been working on the idea for a long time. It is said that Jack was workign with the design as far back as 1923. The first of his flying wings, the N1M was first flown in 1940, followed by the N9M. After that came the XB-35 and B-49.

There has been speculation that German spies in the US were reporting the work of Northrop back to Germany which led to the Horten Ho V, which bears a striking similarity to the Northrop N9M.

Which was first is not known with any precision, but to say that the B2 came from the Horten design is a bit of a stretch.
 
Which was first is not known with any precision, but to say that the B2 came from the Horten design is a bit of a stretch

It must be said however, that Northrop engineers did pay an enriching visit to the museum were the Horten was stored. There certainly WAS a lot of influence. The German Horten was far ahead of its time and a brilliant piece of engineering. It is said it was to be used to carry an atomic bomb to the USA and return afterwards.
 
The Horton would not have had the range for that. And if you are talking about the Ho-229, it is in the National Air and Space Museum in Washington DC but is not out for viewing at the tiem because it is being restored.

Gotha Ho-229

Origin: Gothaer Waggonfabrik AG. to Horten design (see note below)
Type: Single seat fighter/bomber

Engines:
Two Junkers Jumo 004B turbojets
Thrust: 1,980lb (900kg)

Dimensions:
Span 16.75m
Length 7.47m
Height 2.80m

Weights:
Empty: 10,140lbs (4600kg)
Max. loaded: 19,840lb (9000kg)

Speed:
607mph (977km/h)
Ceiling:
52,500ft (16,000m)

Range:
1,970 miles (3170km) at 393mph (635km/h) with two drop tanks

Armaments: Planned
Four Mk 103 or Mk 108 cannon
Plus
Two 1,000kg bombs


If you are talking about the Horton Ho-XVIIIA-B then yes it was designed for the "Amerika Bomber" program.

Ho-XVIIIA


XVIII-B

 
There are two independent and parallel developments:
1.) Northrops flying wings
2.) Hortens flying wings.

The first flying wing of Horten, the Ho-I glider flew for the first time in jule 1933. Probable we don´t see much influence here from Northrop.
Northrops flying wings as the Ho-I suffered from bad flying characteristics, esspeccially at low speed. We would say that these designs were pretty unstable. It wasn´t prior to june 1937 that the Horten brothers proved that a bell shaped lift distribution makes a flying wing configuration stable. Test verified this on the Ho-II. The Ho-II m of 1938 was the first piston dirven flying wing of the Hortens. In 1936 they build the very first plastic plane, the Hols der Teufel, a plane in normal layout and the 1936 (!) Ho-Va also was made almost entirely from plastics. The Ho Vb and Ho V c derivates from the Ho-Va.
The influence goes from Germany to the US and back, that´s what I believe happened. A 1937 edition of the New York Times shows a picture of the Ho-II Glider (D-10-131) in flight and the title: "German Flying Wing over Berlin" Northrop got the development contract after this date. Could it be that there is a connection?
Later in the war, in the mid early 40´s Northrop build unstable flying wings, and this could indeed led to the enforced Ho-IX-project.
Northrop never took notice of the bell shaped lift distribution even at a time when Horten himself wrote him a letter from Argentinia in the mid 50´s...
 

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