getting it right- hand brushed AVG logo background

Discussion in 'Painting Questions, Tutorials and Guidebooks' started by gijive, Jan 17, 2009.

  1. gijive

    gijive Member

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  2. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    ...the book "Tigers Over China" by Thomas A. Tullis, what you are actually seeing is this:

    "The artwork as applied to A.V.G. aircraft was actually an adhesive decal that was printed in the United States and sent to China. Initial flights with the decals revealed that they peeled off in the airstream, so a new method of application was devised. Once applied, a varnish was brushed over the entire decal to permanently affix it to the aircraft. The procedure resulted in a dark patch surrounding the marking,..."
     
  3. gijive

    gijive Member

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    [​IMG]

    Looks like green on brown to me?
     
  4. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    I think if it was a kind of a decal there could appear silvering.And that's way the technical maintenance used the paint to limit the effect and to preserve the decal edges against water and self unsticking.
     
  5. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you GIJive. It looks as you describe. Just putting it out there. However if this man Tullis' preface is true, he was speaking to the guys that were there while writing the book. Incidently the book deals exclusively with AVG camo, shark mouths and markings, it is not a history of the AVG. This is an interesting topic for discussion. I wish more of the fella's would chime in on this.

    Regards
     
  6. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Looking at the original colour pic, I think that there is no doubt that the Tiger emblem is a self adhesive decal, or a printed decal glued to the fuselage; the uniformity of the image is too sharp and precise to be hand painted directly. It is possible that the darker green area surrounding the decal or 'sticker', was applied to make the Tiger emblem more visible, as opposed to the not-that-far-different tone of the brown, or perhaps the paintwork was too weathered, exhibiting that 'dusty' effect that worn matt paintwork often has, to allow the decal to adhere properly. This would certainly explain the need to apply a clear varnish coating over the area, and this can be borne out by the slight difference in tone between the 'new' green, and that of the existing green nearer the front of the airframe. Also, the application of the varnish would darken the 'new' green even more, although only slightly, and have the effect of 'sharpening' the printed image of the Tiger.
    It does make sense that the Tiger emblems were decals - imagine the job of having to hand-paint both sides of each aircraft to look the same! And, of course, the use of decals for various markings was quite common. The R.A.F. (or, more correctly the factories) often used decals for serial numbers on large aircraft such as the Halifax, and for 'standard' markings, such as warning labels, equipment location points and instructions such as 'To Open...' etc. The United States Forces also used decals in the same manner, and for 'kill markings', and did so more than the British Forces, AFIAK.
    Finally, as it has just occured to me, it may be that the decal, being ordered for a U.S. built aircraft, was produced with a suitably-sized 'neutral' background, to allow placement on the aircraft with a certain amount of colour match; of course, at that period, the standard upper surface colours were the Olives or Greens, hence any background would be that colour, or a near enough match.
     
  7. muller

    muller Active Member

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    I just found out the Flying Tiger image was designed by Walt Disney 8)
     
  8. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    Yes, it was. The Walt Disney Studios also designed the shoulder patches.
     
  9. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone here is disputing that the "Flying Tiger" logo was actually a decal. If I read him right, GIJive was calling attention to the immediate background that surrounds the decal. He believes it was a fresh coat of "brown" paint while I believe and quoted Tullis stating that it was varnish applied over the decal that changed the base color.
     
  10. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    That's interesting; the original 'Eagle Squadron' (RAF) logo was also designed by Walt Disney, or at least his Studio's artists. It was never used, but did appear as the personal 'emblem' of Don Gentile, on the nose of his famous P51B Mustang, 'Shangri La'.
     
  11. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    There was also a number of groups that used Disney characters for nose art and squadron logos.
     
  12. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    Here is an interesting read on the Disney studios during WWII. Two animators worked full time on creating logos and mascots for all kinds of groups:

    Disney Goes to War
     
  13. muller

    muller Active Member

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    Disney GB anyone?? :lol:
     
  14. gijive

    gijive Member

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    Green.......... on brown My point was simply 'oh look hand brushed green paint around the decal, so when I made the model I put it around the one on the model too. No more than that really'.. I just read that his aircraft was crashed by another pilot( not Charles Older) in to Kunming lake, killing the pilot.
     
  15. Venganza

    Venganza Member

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    I believe the Luftwaffe also used Mickey Mouse for a logo - I can't recall the group. I doubt that they paid any royalties to Mr. Disney. As an aside, cartoon characters were popular on both sides in the Spanish Civil War.

    Venganza
     
  16. gijive

    gijive Member

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    I think they just thought it would show up better
     
  17. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    ..Green! Sorry for the goof GIJive. Great point of calling attention to an often missed modeling detail. I agree the best way to duplicate would be with green paint, regardless of what was actually used on the real thing. Again, sorry for initiating the "flogging a dead horse".
     
  18. gijive

    gijive Member

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    Just got the Osprey book, American Volunter Group colours and markings, good little book, arrived after I finished the model, but I'll make another one day.
     
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