Ghosts...

I have had a number of experiences since being a small child but have learnt that it is best to keep them to myself as people tend to treat it as a joke. Since this is an anon forum there is little for me to lose so here goes. When I was about 5 I saw a headless man walking about the kitchen, when I think about this it makes me laugh because I remember that at the time I just sat watching him with interest as he was looking through the cupboards and I couldn't understand how he ever hoped to find what he was looking for with no head.
Another time I was asleep in my friends living room one night and awoke to find him knelt staring at me from the corner of the room, when I asked him why he was knelt there staring at me like that and was he alright he just faded away, I remember the room was pitch dark but that his apparition was luminous grey. So anyway I decided to go upstairs and check on him, I went into his room and spent some time shaking him violently by the shoulders to wake him up which eventually he did. A few years later he discovered that he suffered from a sleeping disorder that can suffocate you in your sleep.
One night a friend and I were walking down a country lane that had a disputed right of way, the thing was that one of the people that lived along this lane was in the habit of coming out and challenging people over this right of way. On this particular night we saw someone dressed in what looked like a almost luminous grey jogging suit approach us pushing a bicycle and I remember we could even hear the ticking of the bicycles sprocket as he approached us. I remember saying to my friend that we are going to have argument with this person over us walking down here but just as we got to about 10 foot of the man with the bicycle he faded away and at the same time a cat which was stood stationary in front of us let out an ear piercing scream and shot off through the hedge. As I asked my mate if he had seen what I had seen a freezing cold gust of wind powered its way through a thick hedge, this was on a still warm summers night and my mate was absolutely bricking himself with eyes like dinner plates.
I have also known a number of hardened sceptics that have seen things which have changed their minds. There is a pub in Bournemouth that was bombed in the war with heavy loss of life (a thread exists on this forum entitled the Metropole Hotel bombing of something similar). During my youth the pub had changed it's name from the Metropole to the Gander on the Green and none of us knew of it's history, I was a regular in this pub and knew most of the regulars and bar staff some of who would tell of the grey lady. Most people took the grey lady as a joke or wind up, one of my friends was completely adamant that ghosts didn't exist until one night when he was taking part in a lock in and saw her with his own eyes.
I knew another bloke who was a snowdrop in the RAF, he was a very dry and uninteresting character who said that he didn't believe in ghosts but that when he was stationed on this old wartime airfield there was an office that required a 24 hour guard. Most of his fellow snowdrops would hate guarding this office and would do everything in their power to get out of doing so, he said the problem was that sometimes when you were stood outside of its single locked door you could hear a phone ring and a conversation take place, the room was sealed and guarded and nobody could get in or out. The same bloke said there was a disused dispersal area on the same airfield that occasional activity was reported on and that whenever he went to investigate he could never get his German Shepherd to go anywhere near it, the dog would just stand there with the hairs on the back of its neck stood up, growling and bearing its teeth.

Interesting mate!

Mike, all I can say is same as before: seeing or experiencing is believing. I could just about write a book of my own personal experiences.

Jan, I have a good book back in Hungary, 'True Ghost Stories of World War 1 and 2' I think it's called. Can't remember the name of the author/ publisher unfortunately.
Has some myth stories of aircraft Gremlins and such, but most are factual accounts with names and places of military related hauntings.

Found this site on the net too: http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/5950.Best_Nonfiction_Ghost_Books

Keep them coming pals!
Seem like I'm going a ghost walk in Edinburgh on the 21st....don't know if it's underground dungeons or the real Mary King's close or whatever....looking forward to it anyway!

They also have....
Since 1999, when a homeless person broke into Mackenzie's stone coffin for the night, Greyfriars Churchyard has been the epicentre of an escalation of unexplained events linked to the ghost of Mackenzie; known colloquially as the Mackenzie Poltergeist. The Mackenzie Poltergeist has been called the most well-documented paranormal phenomenon in the world. Even before 1999, there had been reports of unusual disturbances in the graveyard. Between 1990 and 2006 there were 350 reported attacks and 170 reports of people collapsing. Visitors reported being cut, bruised, bitten, scratched and most commonly blacking out. Some complained later of bruises, scratches and gouge-marks on their bodies. Most attacks and feelings of unease occurred in MacKenzie's Black Mausoleum and the Covenantors Prison. In 2000, an exorcist, Colin Grant was summoned to the graveyard to perform an exorcism ceremony; he was said to have picked up "evil forces" and claimed that the forces were too overpowering and feared that they could kill him. A few weeks later, he died suddenly of a heart attack. Edinburgh City Council closed off that part of the cemetery until an Edinburgh-based historian and author, Jan Andrew Henderson, persuaded the council to allow controlled visits to that part of the churchyard and in turn this developed into a nocturnal guided tour, which became a local attraction.

Not a happy bunch there then Jan... would definitely think twice before visiting a place like that!

Totally agree mate!

It is also easy to make mistakes and especially so when you have been drinking. I remember one night sitting on my back porch drinking extra strong village wine when the grim reaper appeared out in the garden, I clearly saw his skeletal figure cavorting around in front of me about forty feet away and I shouted out to him "b**ger off I'm not ready yet" at which point he slowly melted into the background and I went to bed. When I got up next morning somebody had hung their washing out in exactly the same spot I had seen him.

A4K said:

Not a happy bunch there then Jan... would definitely think twice before visiting a place like that!

Click to expand...

This story reminds me of the Highgate vampire, they are said to have tracked him back to his crypt and later filled it with concrete mixed with garlic!

A4K/Pattie and any one else here on the other side of the fence, I do not make fun of you nor do I discount WHAT you are reporting. I firmly believe that you are reporting your PERCEPTIONS. However A4K your statement "Seeing is believing" is where we totally part company. I SAW David Copperfield apperar on a motorcycle in mid-air AND make a railroad car dissappear, I SAW him float in mid-air. Do I believe he really did teleport them or has magical powers, hardly, yet these same people PERCEIVE some natural phenomona for which they have no easy explanation and suddenly their PERCEPTION becomes reality and we have a ghost.
Saw some clowns on the SciFi channel talking to some type of electrical/magnetic field meter that was undergoing some type of fluctuation and suddenly, LO and BEHOLD they were talking to the ghost of Annie Chapman who picks out the Ripper from a list of possible suspects.
As I stated before, I have been in places where hundreds have died horribly and not one single ghost. Let me reverse your statement: Believing is Seeing

Well Mike, with all due respects, I've had several stories told to me by very credible sources.

One story, was where a woman with long black hair and a blue victorian dress would appear in the hallway of the house or pass down the stairway from the 2nd storey landing, eventually passing into one wall or another. The house (and others in the neighborhood) were built over a long gone town. This was seen by several family members, actually, my Mom, my Aunt and my stepdad. I might mention that my stepdad is a former United States Marine, a veteran of Korea and a survivor of the battle Chosin.

My Uncle Earl told a story of seeing a man on the side of the road late one snowy evening and stopped to see if he was in need of help. The man disappeared before his eyes so Uncle Earl got out to see what happened. No foot prints in the snow, no trace of him to be seen. He found out later that this apparition has happened over the years in the very spot where a car went over the side of the mountain road in the 1940's, killing the driver. My Uncle Earl is a retired Unites States Navy Chief, starting his career serving aboard destroyers in the PTO, surviving actions like the Battle of the Solomons, kamikaze attacks and more.

I've heard other encounters by very credible sources...but these two sources mentioned above come from two men who have seen and survived death in circumstances of an unimaginable level.

It is not important to me whether somebody believes in this or not, there is no harm in not believing and I can understand why some people don't.

Dave, I totally and completely believe everything that you and other are saying and reporting. I don't know any other way to say it but I repeat, Perception is not necessarily reality. Charles Dickens said it best. When Scrooge first encounters Marley's "Ghost", He (Scrooge does what so many do not do, he questions his own senses. Marley's ghost asks, "Why do you doubt your senses?" Scrooge scoffs that "...a little thing affects them. A slight disorder of the stomach makes them cheat. You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!" Later, more pointedly he says, "Humbug, I tell you! Humbug!"
Humans depend mostly on vision which is actually a series of still pictures taken at a rate of 8-10 per second which the brain knits together to PERCEIVE motion. That's why movies or TV images seem to move. It is also why the "Hand is faster than the eye". Even at that rate there is too much data so the brain filters and focuses. Magicians know this and have pretty girls in scanty costumes. The brain also focuses on motion. Why magicians have the girls in motion or move their hands and body to focus attention away from the real action. Experience teaches that light travels in straight lines thus if we perceive something in front of us we believe it is really there and 99.9% of the time it is, yet the atmosphere can bend light. I know that the air above a hot road is bending light yet I perceive a reflection of the blue sky on the road which becomes water in front of me. Driving down the road in the evening and looking at the moon racing through the trees I perceive it chasing me. Knowing it isn't does not change the perception.
24/7 the brain receives data from the senses. It grows accustomed to this and actually requires it. Humans in sensory deprivation tanks quickly hallucinate seeing/hearing/feeling/etc that which is not there as the brain supplies its own data. Quite simply, when data is not supplied by the environment, the brain fills in the gaps. A bit of cultural priming and a half-seen flickering shadow becomes a Ghost.
I've fired thousands of rounds at moving shadows in the treeline.

i am surprised with the 42% believing in demonic possession. i figured that number would be way low.

i have no ghost stories myself per say. i do have second hand knowledge by 2 very reliable people...one of them being my sister....the other being a lady who became a good friend later. it was her ( the friends ) staunch belief in being truthful and knowing my own sister wasnt a BSer...i gave this story a lot of creedance. anyways this was right after they had met and were out for a walk around town. the gal lived in the 3rd floor apt of an old beautiful victorian house. there were only 2 ways in....one was a long 3 story ( of course ) outside set of stair. that was the main entrance for the apt. the other was the stairwell that led to the lower floors. but since that led into someone else's apt the door was bolted and locked. anyways it was dark when they finished their walk and as they approached the house they both stopped cold as they could make out the distinct figure of someone standing in the window of the house. then they could see the person walking through the livingroom via a couple other windows. they quickly ran around the back and saw no one coming down or running from the stairs. with the stairs in full view they knocked on door of the first floor apt and told the neighbor what they had just seen. he grabbed a ball bat and went up the stairs with them. the door was locked so he entered after the girl opened it. they all entered but found no one. suspecting that whomever it was they saw left via the inside doorway they looked...only to find it bolted and locked from the inside ( where they were ). after the guy left the girl confided in my sister that a lot of strange things happened in this apt. she would wake to find all the cabinet doors in the kitchen open and the TV would turn on by itself in the middle of the night. my sister knew what she saw in the window but was skepical of the doors and tv thing. she offered to spend the night so that the woman would not have to be alone....incase the visitor returned. about 3 in the morning she was startled awake by the sound of the tv in front of her hissing loudly ( in those days TV stations signed off shortly after 1 or 2 am. not only was the TV on...but like was told to her earlier...all of the kitchen cabinet doors and drawers were opened. she ( my sister ) swears there was absolutely no way she could have been pranked by her friend.....her turning on the tv then running to her bedroom....and she believes she would have heard the drawers and doors being opened as he is a light sleeper. the girl only stayed there for a little over a month then moved to another place and had no such issues at her new apt. it made a staunch believer out of my sister...has removed a lot of doubt in my mind as well. but personally in all the strange things i have come across....that is one i have yet to knowingly experience myself.

Houdini was constantly accused of having paanormal abilities. He constantly denied these and was always careful to refer to his ILLUSIONS. Some newer "Magicians" are not so forthcoming (David Blaine comes immediately to mind). His latest TV special was called "Believe". Again I do not. My son performed semi-pro as a magician and I helped so I know how many of these illusions are performed. Blaine's needle through arm was being done by my 16YO son back in 1985.
Houdini spent the last 1/2 of his life looking for a real medium or any proof of ghosts and never found any. Several research societies offer million dollar rewards for such PROVEABLE phemomon - there are no takers. Bess Houdini waited many years for Harry to contact from the "Great Beyond" and many Societies of Magicians still try today---alas no letters from Harry to this day
Anecdotal stories of PERCEPTION are not proof and agitated people are highly suggestible so a dimly lit scene, a window 36ft in the air, shifting light - curtains moving and we have a ghostman strolling across the appartment. Power surges in the early AM and a jury-rigged wired old house trips a solenoid - and a Ghost turns on my TV.
Sorry guys dead is dead, never had even one cause a bit of trouble, now the living on the other hand....

Gotta admit, Mike, you sure do give it a good try!

There will always be a high percentage of anomolies that can be explained (perceived, imagined, swamp gas, weather balloon, etc) but out of all those occurances, a small percentage will always remain unknown.

As far as my Stepdad's visitor, no one knows who she is or why she's there, but after several years of researching, my Mom found out that a small town had occupied that area but was destroyed in a storm surge during a terrible winter storm. Long after, a harbor was built and the area was improved, but the missing town was lost to modern memory. Mom also found out that other people had seen the "Lady in Blue", so it wasn't just them and all this was found out after the fact. No power of suggestion, no odd peripheral abberrations, reflections from headlights, etc.
The apparition was even disliked by their dog, and using human-trait discounts probably wouldn't apply with dogs, since they have a higher sense of perception.

Dave, I try. Everyone is a unique individual and I can never know what another actually PERCEIVES. What I do know for absolute sure is how fallable human senses are yet how much credence we give to those fallable senses. So called "eye-witness" testimony is the worst possible and when stories become second, third, forth, etc. handed it gets worsest. I certainly am not in a position to explain every occurance but again I am VERY confident that Occams Razor is applicable to all physical phenomona and Ghosts don't fit logically into any scenario. Personality certainly has a physical component which comes from internal chemistry and sensory input a Ghost has none of these. How could any type of "humaness" be maintained. It's like the old funeral home consolation "Well I know Bill is up there (never down there) looking after his family" Really!! Wonder what happens to Bill after his kids grow up and die? Does Bill watch out for his grandkids? How about when they die? Wonder if there is a Heavenly Retirement plan?
And that poor, poor, Lady in Blue, she must have really pissed the Big Guy off to be trapped forever doing the same thing over and over with no surcease, her only job: Scaring the Bejesus out of the ocasional human.
So if you can send her this way and she'll sit in my lap and say Howdy I'll change my perception of reality. Until then you is gonna have-ta OPEN the sack so I can personally SEE the pig inside

Well, the closest I ever came to seeing the Lady in Blue was the dog went freakin' nuts late one evening, running halfway down the hall and barking up at the stairway. Seeing as I was the only one home at the time, I picked up a little "heat" and went down the hall to investigate. Nothing there, but the dog was acting weird.

When the folks got home, I mentioned the dog was acting like a retard and that was the end of it.

It would be interesting to see some real science on these occurances, though. If a dog can perceive these things, something real must be going on.

Dave, animals certainly have senses different than human, being able to hear beyond the human range both in pitch and intensity and some can see into the near infra-red. When I let the dogs out at night they sometimes run to the treeline and bark at the dark hair on their neck standing straight. I don't hear or see anything even with a flashlight. Quite simply dogs bark to warn the pack of possible danger/prey and to warn-off hostile critters. Animals have the same fight/flight reflexes as humans and have learned through millenia of natural selection: "better safe than sorry". So they warn at the slightest non-normal sensory input, the very same half-seen moving shadow/noise that would set off my alarm bells had I been aware of it. The primitive brain stem is a powerful force which has only recently been overlain by cortical thinking.
Knowing that light beams can be bent or reflected does not stop me from seeing the mirage "in front of me" or the elephant behind the slanted mirror

I love this ****. We had a "ghost" in the house in Dublin, California" Stuff would go bang in the night in our little 1200sqft in the early 1970s. Door slams, banging furniture and kitchen doors being left open.

Dad would make a deal out of it and then say it was likely just his Marine buddy J.P., drunkenly coming into the house after hours. Never bought that one from the old man. Knowing dad, he would have either gotten up and joined in the revelry or kicked his drunken azz out of the house. Later as I got older, dad built a 'fort' in the attic space. There was a door that went into the crawls space. I always eyed that door with extreme prejudice.

Just as we have to distinguish between accuracy and veracity so we must distinguish between ghosts and 'ghostly phenomenon'.

I believe that the incidents reported by members here are genuinely as reported but that does mean that the explanation is correct?

I do not believe in ghosts. There is no reason for ghosts to have clothes and hospitals and battlefields should be knee deep in them but they are not. Thousands of people die in hospitals daily, often in distress and pain sadly. Imagine how many there should be at the sites of concentration camps as opposed to suburban Victorian houses. My house dates back to at least the 18th century but is ghost free as far as I know. As was the 14th century core of another house we lived in for some years.

However, there are reports that better match past recordings than the spirits of the dead. In this I retain an open opinion but the ability of the human mind to routinely fill in the gaps in our perceptions and seek patterns in random data explains most reports to me. This is an ability that was a key to survival in our hunter gatherer past and we retain it in the modern world.

If you have ever seen the inside out rotating Einstein face mould trick then you know you cannot over ride the brain's attempt to make sense of the senseless. Even though you know half the time the image is concave you still see it as always convex. As a young soldier on a guard stag on the Thetford training area just before dawn I saw a kangaroo. I knew there are no kangaroos there but still it looked like one. I called over two others who saw the same. When dawn properly lit it up it was just a tree branch yet, despite knowing it could not be a kangaroo I could not make my brain see it otherwise no matter how hard I tried, until the sun rose.

BTW, before anyone asks, yes I have seen the real feral Wallabies on the Leek training area.

STANTA I'm guessing? Full of nettles.

I was seeing shapes of people the other night during a night ascent of Snowdon for sunrise photos, it's easy for your mind to play tricks on you when you've not slept.

Some interesting stories on another related thread I made a while back: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/off-topic-misc/paranormal-unusual-happenings-38477.html