You are missing my point pD.
Greatest Fighter Aircraft of All Time
- Thread starter 102first_hussars
- Start date
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No I'm not. You're saying that the F-14 carried a better weapons package, and superior avionics which is true. And once the F-14 was in the air, it could certainly deal with equal or more targets than the Lightning.
But , the Lightning would be destroying enemy planes before the F-14 . Which is what you want when you've got waves of nuclear bombers coming toward your shore , you want them blown out of the sky as quick as possible. And the Lightning does this .
On top of that, looking at a squadron basis ... a F-14 squadron would take longer to scramble than a Lightning squadron . Meaning, there'd be more Lightnings in the sky than F-14s .
But , the Lightning would be destroying enemy planes before the F-14 . Which is what you want when you've got waves of nuclear bombers coming toward your shore , you want them blown out of the sky as quick as possible. And the Lightning does this .
On top of that, looking at a squadron basis ... a F-14 squadron would take longer to scramble than a Lightning squadron . Meaning, there'd be more Lightnings in the sky than F-14s .
syscom3
Pacific Historian
Id agree the F14 has a better avionics and weapons system, but its true the Lightning can intercept the target at a farther distance. I suppose in the scheme of things, whomever can destroy their target first gets the honors.
Plus the F14's had crappy engines (except the -D model)
Plus the F14's had crappy engines (except the -D model)
- Thread starter
- #224
102first_hussars
Tech Sergeant
The F-14 can be loaded with AIM 54 Phoenix missiles, meaning it can engage multiple targets at a range of 140 km away(once hit a drone at 230 km away) as apposed to the Red Tops that can only engage at 12 km, with this said the F-14 would be engaging targets way before the Lightning.
The F-14 can carry an assorted load of 8 missiles, meaning, there is no need to send dozens of Tomcats in the air, so not a whole lot of time would really be wated on organizing a group, the only time wasted would be loading the weapons and taxiing the plane, the F-14 can achieve 45,000ft a minute (some sources say 50,000ft a minute) but again with a load of 4 AIM-54 missiles that more than makes up for lost time.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
what you think the -14 can fire 'em off as soon as his gear's up? he'll need altitude before he can even think about firing any missiles, and were the tomcats sitting on the end of the runway, fueled and armed in a constant state of alert? no, meaning extra time is needed to get them out to the runway and ready to go, in the meantime the lightning's rocketing through 40,000 and 50,000ft
is that because, the ruskies, being so nice, would only send small formations over if they're going to bomb us? they don't want to cause the americans the inconvenience of having to send up more than one plane at a time so they'll only send four
if they launched a large scale raid you'd need entire squadrons of either aircraft, you're gonna get a lightening squadron up before a tomcat sqn, heck i'd bet good money we'd get a vulcan sqn up to counter attack the russians before you'd get a tomcat sqn up 
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
If an a/c is on alert status whatever kind from b52 to C130 or SAR helicopter you can bet that it can airborne in under 5 minutes watch the scrambles of 52's or Vulcans from the cold war era it doesn't take long if you look at the runway layout at interceptor bases you'll observe the area where the a/c on alert in the QRA (quick ready alert) have their own little hanger which for the most part is apart from the normal ramp because the a/c are armed the ramp is located in close proximity to the end of the runway with its own taxiway allowing a short taxi time to the end of the runway the a/c are plugged into their start carts etc and all that remains is for the crew to turn the key taxi to the rwy and go I was unable to convert any google map images of aerodromes over to show this feature
syscom3
Pacific Historian
pbfoot, use "screen save" function, then cut and paste the "map" image.
- Thread starter
- #228
102first_hussars
Tech Sergeant
The AIM-54's HAP modification improves capabilities against very high and fast targets and is more than capable of hitting targets higher than its platform.
How many planes are in a squadron, 24? if the case and you want to talk about numbers 24 Tomcats can take out roughly 192 bombers as apposed to the lightning taking out 48, and the Tomcat taking out the planes from 140km distances as apposed to the Lightning being right in there dealing with escorts and rear gunners and dealing with that shit is what really takes up time so whatever find more ways to beat a dead horse I dont care, to be honest I think some of you guys love that plane just a little too much.
loomaluftwaffe
Tech Sergeant
- 1,840
- Dec 20, 2005
what kind of Soviet bombers are these anyways? Bears? Blinders? Backfires? B*tches?
I've already proven that even if a Tomcat was equipped with the Phoenix, the Lightning would reach and engage it's target first. Just do the math, it's simple. In fact, just go to the thread "Cold War Intercept" and I did the math for you ! And the Tomcat carries six Phoenix missiles, not eight.
The Tomcat has to reach 40,000 feet before the Phoenix reaches it's full potential, and he cannot fire and forget either. The Lightning may not reach firing range first, but the distance the Lightning has already achieved over the Tomcat means that the Lightnings missiles would be reaching their target first.
And you're basing this off missiles alone ? I believe the US made the mistake of not equipping the Phantom with cannon in Vietnam. The 30mm Aden on the Lightning will tear up anything it comes across , and it has two of them !
What if the enemy sends out fighters first ? The Tomcat has to waste very expensive Phoenix missiles on little fighters , while the Lightning could actually fly straight over them! If you look at history, all Tomcat kills have been made with the Sparrow anyway.
There's the math for you , that I did in the Post-War thread "Cold War Intercept".
And we're talking Bears and Bisons, looma. My dad used to send up Lightnings to intercept them all the time.
The Tomcat has to reach 40,000 feet before the Phoenix reaches it's full potential, and he cannot fire and forget either. The Lightning may not reach firing range first, but the distance the Lightning has already achieved over the Tomcat means that the Lightnings missiles would be reaching their target first.
And you're basing this off missiles alone ? I believe the US made the mistake of not equipping the Phantom with cannon in Vietnam. The 30mm Aden on the Lightning will tear up anything it comes across , and it has two of them !
What if the enemy sends out fighters first ? The Tomcat has to waste very expensive Phoenix missiles on little fighters , while the Lightning could actually fly straight over them! If you look at history, all Tomcat kills have been made with the Sparrow anyway.
There's the math for you , that I did in the Post-War thread "Cold War Intercept".
And we're talking Bears and Bisons, looma. My dad used to send up Lightnings to intercept them all the time.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
good lord are you really that dence?
1) there are 12 aircraft in a british fighter squadron (now it's 16 though i believe)
2) as pD has pointed out, the F-14 can carry only 6, very expensive Pheonix missiles
that means by sending up a squadron of F-14s (which takes considderably longer than lightenings) you're getting 72 pheonix in the air, assuming every aircraft is carrying a full load of pheonix (which i severly doubt), the pheonix isn't exactly fire and forget, for your simulation you're really expecting every aircraft in the squadron to fire off their missiles as soon as they're within the 140km range, and for every single missile to hit? and this is from what, 1,000ft, after all you don't seem to think you need much of a ceiling to fire off a pheonix
syscom3
Pacific Historian
A carrier launched F14 with a full Phoenix load also has fairly limited fuel capacity.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
proberly not the best idea to bring up fuel capacity when comparing a lightening to any plane 
that said the pheonix would also slow down the climb rate........
that said the pheonix would also slow down the climb rate........- Thread starter
- #234
102first_hussars
Tech Sergeant
Anyway this thread has gone off topic for too long lets change back to the original discussion.
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Talk about throwing in the towel...
"Yo Mick..."
"Yo Mick..."
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
yeah hussars, come on, stand your ground, not gonna let a 15 year old beat you are you this's still on topic if you ask me.........
this's still on topic if you ask me.........
Desert Fox
Senior Airman
i know this isnt what the conversation here is about and i also know that this is not a WWII plane, but its as near as, dammit. i believe that the AC-130 Spooky has got to be one of the greatest planes built. it has more than triple the armament of the F14, and, of course the Lanc (still a good plane in my book tho) and its all concentrated in one spot, making it ideal for surpressing fire in 'hot' zones.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
as a fixed wing gunship she has no equal, however she's not a fighter..........
Desert Fox
Senior Airman
damn straight its not a fighter, but its capable of many different roles in the military. She has no equal, yes. My fave fighter tho would have to be either the Spitfire or the Hurricane. Maybe the Tempest, although thats more an attack aircraft not a fighter
- Thread starter
- #240
102first_hussars
Tech Sergeant
the lancaster kicks ass said:yeah hussars, come on, stand your ground, not gonna let a 15 year old beat you are you
well theres so many things that I want to say, but I cant put them into text, we would have to be having a face to face discussion about it.
