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- #261
102first_hussars
Tech Sergeant
Thanky You!!!!!
I was kinda outnumbered there for a second...
Greatest Fighter Aircraft of All Time
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I was kinda outnumbered there for a second...
syscom3
Pacific Historian
One thing Id like to point out is if the Tomcat was carrier based, there would be the potential of weather conditions at sea that would preclude the launching of any aircraft.
The Lightning would never see conditions like that thus could sortie.
The Lightning would never see conditions like that thus could sortie.
British Aerospace (English Electric) Lightning
Type: (F.6) Single-seat supersonic all-weather interceptor, strike and reconnaissance aircraft.
Powerplant: Two 15,680 lb Rolls-Royce Avon 302 turbojets.
Performance:
Top Speed: Mach 2.3 at 40,000 feet.
Range: (Internal fuel) 800 miles.
Rate of Climb: (Initial) 50,000 per minute.
Ceiling: 60,000 feet.*
Armament:
Two 30-mm Aden cannon (120 per gun) in forward ventral pack.
Two Firestreak or Red Top missiles on forward pylons, or 44 2-in spin-stabilized rockets. Or five Vinten 360 70-mm cameras. Underwing/Overwing hardpoints can carry up to 144 rockets or six 1,000 lbs HE, retarded or fire bombs.
The forward ventral tank could be removed, replacing the 30mm Aden with extra fuel.
*This is recorded ceiling, it has been since proven by various pilots that the Lightning could, in fact, reach heights greater than 60,000 feet. As one pilot, Mike Hale of 11 Sqdn. zoom climbed to 88,000 feet in his F.3 Lightning.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The British government still has not released the full capability of the EE Lightning. It's ability to climb above 60,000 feet was only released recently, but personally I knew it could all along. My dad did work on them for several years during the Cold War, after all.
The first Lightning flew in August 1954, but was yet to be called the Lightning. It was the P.1, and several days after it's first flight the P.1 achieved what is known as super-cruise. It surpassed Mach 1 without the use of afterburners (re-heat).
The P.1B, now known (unofficially) as the Lightning achieved Mach 2 on fully after-burning Avon engines. It could also achieve supercruise, something that the operational Lightnings could never do.
The marks of the Lightning are F.1, F.1A, F.2, F.2A, F.3, T.4, T.5 and F.6 for the RAF. The only other nation to use the EE Lightning was Saudi Arabia, F.53 and T.55 were their marks. These were re-conditioned F.3 (F.53) and T.5 (T.55).
The Saudi marks were capable of ground attack, and were the only Lightnings used against enemy targets in a border clash against Yemen. The only aircraft shot down by a Lightning was a pilotless Harrier that risked the lives as the pilot lost control and had to eject.
The Lightning was used on the frontline of interception throughout it's service life, both in Britain and Germany. 11 Sqdn. based at RAF Binbrook was my dads squadron, and Lightnings were scrambled daily ... sometimes three times a night to intercept Soviet Tu-95 'Bears' and various other Soviet bombers ...
The Lightning was the only NATO aircraft to intercept a Concorde travelling at Mach 2.2 at 57,000 feet. The Lightning not only caught, but overtook the Concorde while on stern intercept .
The Lightning left service in 1989 , when it was replaced by Panavia Tornado. The British government desired a multi-role capable aircraft, and saw no development potential in the Lightning.
There's few Lightnings left now, despite it being a wonder of a machine and definately a massive step forward in supersonic flight. It's design period began in 1947 ...
Anything else, just ask ...
Type: (F.6) Single-seat supersonic all-weather interceptor, strike and reconnaissance aircraft.
Powerplant: Two 15,680 lb Rolls-Royce Avon 302 turbojets.
Performance:
Top Speed: Mach 2.3 at 40,000 feet.
Range: (Internal fuel) 800 miles.
Rate of Climb: (Initial) 50,000 per minute.
Ceiling: 60,000 feet.*
Armament:
Two 30-mm Aden cannon (120 per gun) in forward ventral pack.
Two Firestreak or Red Top missiles on forward pylons, or 44 2-in spin-stabilized rockets. Or five Vinten 360 70-mm cameras. Underwing/Overwing hardpoints can carry up to 144 rockets or six 1,000 lbs HE, retarded or fire bombs.
The forward ventral tank could be removed, replacing the 30mm Aden with extra fuel.
*This is recorded ceiling, it has been since proven by various pilots that the Lightning could, in fact, reach heights greater than 60,000 feet. As one pilot, Mike Hale of 11 Sqdn. zoom climbed to 88,000 feet in his F.3 Lightning.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The British government still has not released the full capability of the EE Lightning. It's ability to climb above 60,000 feet was only released recently, but personally I knew it could all along. My dad did work on them for several years during the Cold War, after all.
The first Lightning flew in August 1954, but was yet to be called the Lightning. It was the P.1, and several days after it's first flight the P.1 achieved what is known as super-cruise. It surpassed Mach 1 without the use of afterburners (re-heat).
The P.1B, now known (unofficially) as the Lightning achieved Mach 2 on fully after-burning Avon engines. It could also achieve supercruise, something that the operational Lightnings could never do.
The marks of the Lightning are F.1, F.1A, F.2, F.2A, F.3, T.4, T.5 and F.6 for the RAF. The only other nation to use the EE Lightning was Saudi Arabia, F.53 and T.55 were their marks. These were re-conditioned F.3 (F.53) and T.5 (T.55).
The Saudi marks were capable of ground attack, and were the only Lightnings used against enemy targets in a border clash against Yemen. The only aircraft shot down by a Lightning was a pilotless Harrier that risked the lives as the pilot lost control and had to eject.
The Lightning was used on the frontline of interception throughout it's service life, both in Britain and Germany. 11 Sqdn. based at RAF Binbrook was my dads squadron, and Lightnings were scrambled daily ... sometimes three times a night to intercept Soviet Tu-95 'Bears' and various other Soviet bombers ...
The Lightning was the only NATO aircraft to intercept a Concorde travelling at Mach 2.2 at 57,000 feet. The Lightning not only caught, but overtook the Concorde while on stern intercept .
The Lightning left service in 1989 , when it was replaced by Panavia Tornado. The British government desired a multi-role capable aircraft, and saw no development potential in the Lightning.
There's few Lightnings left now, despite it being a wonder of a machine and definately a massive step forward in supersonic flight. It's design period began in 1947 ...
Anything else, just ask ...
Attachments
loomaluftwaffe
Tech Sergeant
- 1,840
- Dec 20, 2005
why do i always see fighters right next to bombers as if they arent gonna bring the bomber down?
Cold war, to shoot it down would of brought reliation from the Soviets so they didn't, they just shadowed them until they where out of the West's airspace.
Good pics pD.
Good pics pD.
- Thread starter
- #267
102first_hussars
Tech Sergeant
syscom3 said:
Britain is well known for having retarded weather, so it doesnt matter whether its on land or the channel.
loomaluftwaffe
Tech Sergeant
- 1,840
- Dec 20, 2005
then why are the bombers there? if they will bomb the others will retaliate and kill the bomber which will make the Soviets retaliateGnomey said:
It is all about testing the others capabilities. The Soviet bombers weren't going to bomb and the West's fighters weren't going to shoot them down (unless either was told too but both sides knew thee consequences). They were provocative flights that were more probing than offensive bombing missions.
loomaluftwaffe
Tech Sergeant
- 1,840
- Dec 20, 2005
and they didnt get anywhere, just wasted some fuel
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
loomaluftwaffe said:
No - it was a game that tested the will of both sides - valuable photo infomation was also gathered during these intercepts....
loomaluftwaffe
Tech Sergeant
- 1,840
- Dec 20, 2005
ok fine, besides tomcats use up more fuel dont they? and they're just gonna escort them till they get the hell out of your backyard
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
No the could hook up with a tanker if they had to and continue on - the F-14 had pretty long legs...loomaluftwaffe said:
loomaluftwaffe
Tech Sergeant
- 1,840
- Dec 20, 2005
so could the lightning right? see that pic over there?
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Yep!
- Thread starter
- #276
102first_hussars
Tech Sergeant
FLYBOYJ said:
You guys had been winning the spy plane game for years, first the U2 then the Blackbird.
Very true hussars although the Soviets still tried and didn't get very far...102first_hussars said:
Royzee617
Tech Sergeant
Both the Lightning and Tomcat were great planes each with its own S&W.
Notwithstanding the Libyan GoS incident, neither plane got to really prove its potential in actual combat (unlike the F15).
What they both did was deter and demonstrate the determination of their respective operators. The Russkies were testing the RAF's defences but both sides likely never expected to fight. But if they did not launch the alert birds then it might show the Soviets we were weak. Besides they would have come in with barrage jamming etc not one bomber at a time. Both sides knew they had obsolescent machinery too in the age of the ICBM and Polaris etc.
The F14 did similar work protecting the carriers.
BTW I read in a Tomcat book that the USAF kept the F14 back during the second GW so they could rack up the kills. So that distorts history somewhat. The Lightning may have also seen action in the Middle East but not much is on record.
The RAF never shot down an enemy in wartime with its jet fighters of the past 3 decades methinks. Whether it is the Lightning or F4 [Tornado too so far] there have been no pure kills let alone RAF aces!
I am trying to think of the last pure A2A kill by the RAF. The Falklands was a FAA affair. Maybe a GR3 hacked down a Herc or helo but did no true dogfighting. Besides it's not a fighter/interceptor, it's a GA plane.
The RAF's Hunters and Javelins did little A2A either. So it might boil down to a Meteor hacking down a V1. Not much return for all that it costs but that's the downside of deterrence.
Notwithstanding the Libyan GoS incident, neither plane got to really prove its potential in actual combat (unlike the F15).
What they both did was deter and demonstrate the determination of their respective operators. The Russkies were testing the RAF's defences but both sides likely never expected to fight. But if they did not launch the alert birds then it might show the Soviets we were weak. Besides they would have come in with barrage jamming etc not one bomber at a time. Both sides knew they had obsolescent machinery too in the age of the ICBM and Polaris etc.
The F14 did similar work protecting the carriers.
BTW I read in a Tomcat book that the USAF kept the F14 back during the second GW so they could rack up the kills. So that distorts history somewhat. The Lightning may have also seen action in the Middle East but not much is on record.
The RAF never shot down an enemy in wartime with its jet fighters of the past 3 decades methinks. Whether it is the Lightning or F4 [Tornado too so far] there have been no pure kills let alone RAF aces!
I am trying to think of the last pure A2A kill by the RAF. The Falklands was a FAA affair. Maybe a GR3 hacked down a Herc or helo but did no true dogfighting. Besides it's not a fighter/interceptor, it's a GA plane.
The RAF's Hunters and Javelins did little A2A either. So it might boil down to a Meteor hacking down a V1. Not much return for all that it costs but that's the downside of deterrence.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Not true - I believe during GW2 several F-14s were being used as a bomber. As far as kills, I don't think there was a single air-to-air engagement during GW2, the Iraqi Air Force basically didn't exist...Royzee617 said:
Royzee617
Tech Sergeant
You're correct - the book where I read that was about the 'Bombcat'. Shows how good Grumman's design was. But no chance for A2A.
MW I have been re-reading a book on the Hunter. The only action the RAF planes saw was G2A. Some A2A by IAF et al. quite a few lost too.
So I suspect zero kills by Raf jets against other jet fighters. The last A2A was likely a RAF pilot over the Falklands. But flying an FAA plane.
MW I have been re-reading a book on the Hunter. The only action the RAF planes saw was G2A. Some A2A by IAF et al. quite a few lost too.
So I suspect zero kills by Raf jets against other jet fighters. The last A2A was likely a RAF pilot over the Falklands. But flying an FAA plane.
