Groundhog Thread Part Deux - P-39 Fantasy and Fetish - The Never Ending Story (Mods take no responsibility for head against wall injuries sustained)

[Greg Boeser]

Although a handful of P-39s from the 36th FS went up to Moresby in early April, 1942, they really didn't see much action until the whole squadron and their supporting ground crews got there near the end of the month. First kills credited 30 April 1942. Yoshino was the victim of the first withdrawal escort mission flown in the SWPA. Up to that time the B-26s of the 22nd BG and the B-25s of the 3rd BG were flying unescorted. The 3rd BG had been mauled by Zeroes in back to back missions in late May, losing eight B-25s in two missions. So the Tainan pilots were conditioned to having their way with the unescorted bombers especially when they had to climb to get back over the Owen Stanleys. The 9 June mission was the first time friendly fighters were on hand to scrape the pursuers off so the bombers could get over the mountains unmolested.

 

[P-39 Expert]

Personally, I would welcome a break from the endless P-39 discussions.

The title of the thread is "P-39 vs. German Fighters", no?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The title of the thread is "P-39 vs. German Fighters", no?

Yes, and sometimes we allow discussion to go off kilter - how far this goes? This is a function of the admins and moderators.

 

[wuzak]

The title of the thread is "P-39 vs. German Fighters", no?

The discussion is still about the P-39, mainly, so that should make you happy!

 

[jmcalli2]

Those figures are for a P-39N, which had 225 more HP and somewhat less weight than the D. Besides, any previous experience the Japanese had against the P-39 was most likely meeting them and bouncing them as they struggled to intercept an incoming raid with very little warning.
Cheers,
Wes

Sounds good to me.

 

[Barrett]

Sidebar: Just received a review copy of the latest in the Osprey "Duel" series: P-39/400 v. A6M2. Amazingly enough, the Bells broke even at 15-15 in New Guinea though of course they claimed 5-6 times as many.

 

[P-39 Expert]

Not bad for green pilots up against Japan's best.

 

[MIflyer]

Yes, the Osprey P-39 Aces book says much the same thing.

Of course Guadalcanal was the big problem. They were at even more of a disadvantage there and I think the P-400 reliability suffered from being shipped over the ETO and then down to the Solomans, as well as being equipped with RAF oxygen systems that the USAAF system could not support.

Interesting item in the P-39 Aces book. Buzz Wagner led a force of P-39's up the coast of New Guinea to attack Japanese seaplane bases and got into a huge furball of a fight in which both sides lost equal numbers. But that was a few days before the Battle of the Coral Sea, and one of the IJN's problems was inadequate recon seaplane support to their fleet. The IJN HQ tasked their seaplane units in the area and they replied that they were not in a position to help. Whether planned to help the naval engagement or not, the P-39's shot up those seaplane bases at just the right time.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Whether planned to help the naval engagement or not, the P-39's shot up those seaplane bases at just the right time.

Sarah & Dippity!

 

[parsifal]

P-39s never even came close to shooting down 15 Zekes over Moresby. Try a maximum of 7, but probably closer to 5,

Ratios for overall P-39/A6M losses are better. All up losses are around 30 for the Zekes to about 60 for the P-39s, though some sources say many more.

.

 

[P-39 Expert]

P-39s never even came close to shooting down 15 Zekes over Moresby. Try a maximum of 7, but probably closer to 5,

Ratios for overall P-39/A6M losses are better. All up losses are around 30 for the Zekes to about 60 for the P-39s, though some sources say many more.

.

How do you figure?

 

[XBe02Drvr]

How do you figure?

Per recorded Japanese losses, most likely.

 

[P-39 Expert]

Per recorded Japanese losses, most likely.

Who knows how accurate their records are?

 

[fubar57]

As accurate as American, British, German and Russian records I imagine

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Who knows how accurate their records are?

Who knows? Shinpachi maybe?
Since the records were for their own administrative and maintenance purposes with probably no thought of public exposure or future publication, they're probably as accurate as they possibly could be under the circumstances. Propaganda not likely an issue.
Cheers,
Wes

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Who knows how accurate their records are?

What else do you have to go off of?

 

[XBe02Drvr]

What else do you have to go off of?

American claims, of course! Ha, ha!

 

[Peter Gunn]

Who knows how accurate their records are?

Why are Japanese records always called into question? As Wes said, they had their own maintenance and administrative needs, what's to be gained by lying? I doubt any staff officer wanted to get caught telling his boss they had plenty of XYZ aircraft left when the reality was only half or less. Seppuku comes to mind if the general found out.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Hey, I just noticed I've been promoted to Airman 1st Class. What a non-sequitur! Airman is an E-3; Petty Officer 1st Class is an E-6. Does that make me an E-9? Or an E-4 1/2? Now if you want to do the sensible thing, and rate me AP (Airplane Pilot) 1st Class, that would be eagerly accepted! (My apologies to all the ancient members of that long abolished rate who are rolling over in their graves at this travesty.) I await with trembling heart my fate.
Cheers,
Wes

 

[Peter Gunn]

Hey, I just noticed I've been promoted to Airman 1st Class. What a non-sequitur! Airman is an E-3; Petty Officer 1st Class is an E-6. Does that make me an E-9? Or an E-4 1/2? I await with trembling heart my fate.
Cheers,
Wes

OMG!!! Me too!!! Surely a sign of the apocalypse...