happy 4th of july

[FLYBOYJ]

The cars are Camaros not Citrons!!!!!

 

[Nonskimmer]

The French Flag

Also Russia, Holland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Taiwan, North Korea, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Norway, Iceland...

Oh piss on it, there's too many to list.

 

[102first_hussars]

And then you got the stars and stripes

God bless Australia

 

[Pisis]

God bless me.
Happy Independence Day!

 

[102first_hussars]

God help us all, nevertheless I envy the independance day celebrations, us canadians try to be as commited but cant seem to keep up with you yanks

 

[Nonskimmer]

That's because they earned it the hard way. They made a stand for their independence, while we just kinda took it bit by bit over a much longer period. Like we've discussed before, we still have official (though entirely ceremonial) ties to the British Crown too. With us it's like "The maple leaf forever!" and "God save the queen!" all at the same time. Then throw in the French sovereigntists for good measure. No wonder we're so damn f*cked up.

Anyhoo, God bless America and all of you American type people. Ya seem to be doing a fair job of it so far.

 

[102first_hussars]

That's because they earned it the hard way. They made a stand for their independence, while we just kinda took it bit by bit over a much longer period. Like we've discussed before, we still have official (though entirely ceremonial) ties to the British Crown too. With us it's like "The maple leaf forever!" and "God save the queen!" all at the same time. Then throw in the French sovereigntists for good measure. No wonder we're so damn f*cked up.

Anyhoo, God bless America and all of you American type people. Ya seem to be doing a fair job of it so far.

That is true, but Canada earned alot of its independance in blood as well, but you talk of the quebecers as if they are a boil on Canadas *ss, (they are sort of) but Im proud of our french, Canada holds the highest population of french people who didnt surrender to the germans, and that my fellow yanks and Anglos all around is a ****ing accomplishment

 

[Nonskimmer]

That is true, but Canada earned alot of its independance in blood as well

What the hell are you talking about? When did we ever fight the British? We were the ones who remained loyal to King George III while the Yanks were shooting at redcoats. Ever heard of the Empire Loyalists? They were anyone from the southern colonies (that would become the US) who remained loyal to the Crown, and they took refuge in Upper Canada and Nova Scotia for the most part. Our independence from Britain came gradually through diplomatic means, not revolution.

but you talk of the quebecers as if they are a boil on Canadas *ss

No I don't. I talk of the French sovereigntists/seperatists as if they're a boil on our a*s. Get it straight. Some of my best buds are Québeckers.

Canada holds the highest population of french people who didnt surrender to the germans, and that my fellow yanks and Anglos all around is a ****ing accomplishment

Yep.

 

[Maestro]

What the hell are you talking about? When did we ever fight the British? We were the ones who remained loyal to King George III while the Yanks were shooting at redcoats. Ever heard of the Empire Loyalists? They were anyone from the southern colonies (that would become the US) who remained loyal to the Crown, and they took refuge in Upper Canada and Nova Scotia for the most part. Our independence from Britain came gradually through diplomatic means, not revolution.

Hmmm... You have a more polite way to describe Loyalists than I do. However, I agree with you.

I think our Western brother is mistaking Independence and responsible gouvernment. The lone rebellion Canada ever had against the British Empire was the Patriots' rebellion of 1837-1838. And it was the biggest failure in the history of Canadian warfare.

Sh*t ! 200 or 300 of underarmed rebels against three or four complete companies of redcoats. And we were supposed to win against them ? Yeah, sure !

 

[Nonskimmer]

Ah yes. Louis Joseph Papineau, the great grand daddy of the seperatist movement, and William Lyon Mackenzie, a drunken Scotsman. The great Canadian rebellion. I'd actually forgotten about that. What a farce. Good to see things don't change much.

 

[102first_hussars]

I was never talking about fighting the British, I was talking about fighting for the British, as the Boer war to the end of the second world war we gained more control over our own decisions, foriegn affairs, we were the first dominion to have its own navy for christ sakes

 

[Maestro]

... as the Boer war to the end of the second world war we gained more control over our own decisions...

In fact it's from the Boer war to the end of the First World War. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Canada became independent from Great-Britain in the Inter-war years... In 1927, if I remember well. Even if we only got our current flag in the 50s.

 

[pbfoot]

1931 Treaty of Westminister and 1965/64 we changed from the red ensign

 

[Nonskimmer]

Leave it to a buncha guys from Canada to spoil a perfectly good 4th of July thread by turning it into a Canadian circus. Me, me, me, me, us, us, us, us! Hey, look at us everyone! Ha!

Yes, so once again Happy Independence Day, America. Even if it's been a week already.


So, where were we? Right, the independence thing.

1931 Treaty of Westminister and 1965/64 we changed from the red ensign

It's Statute of Westminster. The Treaty of Westminster was something totally different.

Ya know, regardless of statutes and what have you, we've really been more or less running our own show since not too long after Confederation in 1867. Like around 1871, with the Washington Treaty and the formation of the Canadian Army. You know we'd do basically whatever the hell we wanted anyway if our minds were made up, regardless of what the Brits said. That's just the way we are.
Nine times out of ten though, we'd be right there by their side, like good little subjects of the king. The Statute of Westminster was more or less formality in our case, just like the repatriation of the constitution in '82. But it didn't just apply to us, it applied to Newfoundland (not part of Canada at the time), Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and Ireland. Britain more or less officially said, "Right, off you go. Have fun, and don't stray too far from home, ok?". They officially recognized us as equals.

As for flags, what's the difference with respect to independence? Australia and New Zealand still have the Union Jack in their flags. It doesn't mean sh*t. We just wanted something uniquely Canadian, that's all. In fact a lot of francophones still hate the fact that it's red and white only. They see them as English colours, because they were made the official colours of Canada by King George V. They'd be happier if it contained some blue, to represent the French part of our heritage.

 

[Maestro]

As for flags, what's the difference with respect to independence? Australia and New Zealand still have the Union Jack in their flags. It doesn't mean sh*t.

Well, personnally, I think that an independent country still having an Union Jack in their flag are still considering themselves as being King's minions... Even if they aren't.

We just wanted something uniquely Canadian, that's all. In fact a lot of francophones still hate the fact that it's red and white only. They see them as English colours, because they were made the official colours of Canada by King George V. They'd be happier if it contained some blue, to represent the French part of our heritage.

In fact, I didn't even knew about the George V thing. It just prove that we were still taking orders from overseas. The flag was designed in the 60s and we were still doing as an English King (dead in 1936) wanted.

If I had been on the design team, I would have said : "Piss on the King ! Are we Independent or not ?"

If I had the choice, I would have chosen one of these two below.

I think the main problem in our country is that we, the Non-English, still see the English-Canadians as being attached to the British Crown. Get us rid of that idea and I can bet that you'll see the separatist movement drop from 48% to a thin 25% or even 10%.

 

[Nonskimmer]

You're right, we do still see ourselves as the queen's minions. So do the Australians and New Zealanders, as a matter of fact.
So what? It don't mean a damn thing.
I personally don't see anything wrong with our flag the way it is.
I like it, and I'm no monarchist. The only ones who even give a sh*t about the colours are francos. Hell, most anglophones in Canada don't even know the historical significance of red and white, I'll guarantee it. Maybe one in seven or eight. Big freakin' deal.

Incidentally, that second example of yours with the three leaves was favoured by then Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson. It was known as the "Pearson Pennant".

 

[trackend]

I'd never call you a minion Skim more of a minnow what with your watery connections, at least the silly cow don't cost you 68p every year out of your taxes.she should be bowing to us not the other way round .

 

[102first_hussars]

Well I can say our current flag is pretty original, we came close to using another red white and blue design,

 

[Nonskimmer]

at least the silly cow don't cost you 68p every year out of your taxes.

The Queen, no. The Governor General, yes.

Well I can say our current flag is pretty original, we came close to using another red white and blue design,

Have you ever seen the book called I Stand For Canada? It's all about the current flag, and what led up to it's adoption in the first place. In it are some of the proposed flag designs that were looked at back then, and man oh man, there are a few charmers there, let me tell ya.
One of them was nothing more than the Union Jack with four fleur-de-lis added, to represent the French. How f*cked up would that have looked? Another one looked like the Norwegian flag. But Christ Almighty, some of them were just designed by people on speed! They had to have been! In amongst the crap were a few interesting proposals though, and almost every one of them centred around the maple leaf. That's long been a Canadian symbol, so it made perfect sense for the flag.

 

[pbfoot]

well here is an original which I dug up from my relics