Help! Fubar'd my latest project!
- Thread starter Robert Porter
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- #22
Robert Porter
Senior Master Sergeant
I did not think of removing the plug of hardened material just chucked it. Rather stupid in hind sight I guess I was thinking it would be like CA glue and be solid pretty much all the way through. It felt solid anyway.
My usage mimics the wrong way as illustrated above, the masking tape was no where near that close to the gap as I anticipated that I would not be slopping around that much, but was obviously wrong.
For larger seams I will probably stick with Wurger's method and for the smaller seams I will try the other way shown farther above in this thread. I really appreciate the advice I have received all around!
- Thread starter
- #23
Robert Porter
Senior Master Sergeant
I am positive I did not do the sanding properly as well, so last night I got one of my wifes nail files and wrapped it with 240 grit wet/dry sandpaper until my actual sanding kit arrives. I sat down and began sanding again keeping it wet but not sopping wet. Made a LOT of progress! I am now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel! I am going to keep at it and perhaps repaint in the Green colors used in earlier 17's will keep everyone posted on my progress!
This has become a real learning experience for me which is great. The guys I see in the videos somehow make me feel I am hopelessly outclassed but as with most things I think it is just greater experience so there is hope!
Crimea_River
Marshal
Glad it's working for you.
Builder 2010
Staff Sergeant
The application diagram was very good. Now that you've gone beyond that, I think it might be better to use Tamiya putty to create a new surface entirely above what's there. It may change the belly's contours a bit, but it would be regular and smooth and take paint well. I'm well aware of the lousy seams on that model and since it had raised panel lines it's very hard to restore them after filling all the gaps. Just getting it smooth should be your goal since the surface is inaccurate anyway.
mikewint
Captain
Harbor Freight Tools has a nice little bench grinder [Item #43533] with a flex shaft tool (Dremel-like) attachment included. I bought one a few years back and it works perfectly for small grinding jobs and the flex shaft is a bit clumsy to use but quick and handy when I don't want to get the Dremel out or the battery is low
- Thread starter
- #28
Robert Porter
Senior Master Sergeant
You said it! While I am far better off than I was I now face the prospect of restoring the detail I lost. Oh well, another skill to acquire practice! The Tamiya Putty comes in White and Gray, is their any difference other than the color between the two that you are aware of? I could not see a difference in the ingredients?
- Thread starter
- #29
Robert Porter
Senior Master Sergeant
Looks like just the tool! And in my budget! Do you know if I take one of the guards off if they make a rag wheel for it?
mikewint
Captain
It's a 6in grinder so I would assume that any 6in wheel would fit. Harbor Freight is on line so it would be easy to check. They have a flat rate shipping charge which is great for heavy items costly for small.
- Thread starter
- #31
Robert Porter
Senior Master Sergeant
I am fortunate in that one of their stores is less than 10 miles from my house, heading down their today!
- Thread starter
- #32
Robert Porter
Senior Master Sergeant
Actually the one that equated to the part number you gave is a 3" grinder and is what I bought. And I was able to purchase a 3" rag wheel from them as well as assorted different wheels if I ever need. Fired it up this afternoon and it works like a champ. The guards are not removable but there is plenty of room to work with so I should be good. I love the fact it is variable speed as opposed to single speed and the flexible tool is nice, I have a similar one for my Dremel but hey can never have too many option! By the way it was 38USD and change at my local store. Great deal!
Lots of good replies so far, I'll share what I've discovered...
1. For tiny hairline seams, I find a lacquer primer like Gunze Mr Surfacer makes a better filler. You can build up several layers and sand it off. As long as you keep your layers reasonably thin it dries within a few minutes, though I still wait an hour or so before sanding. Expect to do multiple applications and sandings, but because it dries fast and sands easily you can build it up and sand it off several times before squadron or tamiya putty would dry once.
2. For moderately larger gaps, I use either squadron putty or tamiya putty. Several thin applications, the first application focusing on smooshing it right in to the gap otherwise when you sand it off the gap will reappear. Thick applications take longer to dry, a very thick application may not dry properly for a very long time because it melts the plastic. I don't plan to have this putty as my "final" surface, if it is smooth enough in the end that's great, but often it's hard to get a nice finish with this sort of putty and I'll still be able to see a hairline on the seam or where I cordoned off the area with tape there'll be a fine line because the putty slightly melted the plastic. So once I've got it "pretty good" I whip out the Mr Surfacer and use that for the final smoothing.
3. For big gaps I find a putty that DOESN'T melt the plastic is easier to use. I use milliput which is an epoxy putty. You can actually mix it with water if you're struggling to get it in to the gap. I find you want to be generous and apply quite a bit with water if necessary and then before it tries use a wet sculpting tool and wet Q-tip to smooth it and shape it. Milliput is sandable but unlike squadron or tamiya putty you can manipulate it before it dries so your aim should be to smooth it out to the point where little to no sanding is used.
4. When gluing stuff with plastic-melting glue, avoid using too much because a large puddle of molten plastic can take ages (like, weeks if not months) to dry properly so sometimes gaps will look fine and then slowly reappear. Paul Budzik covers it in a video...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WajXJPPyE8
One thing Paul mentions I've never been able to get to work is using CA cement as a filler. It seems there's a very small window where it's easy to sand, wait too long and it'll go hard, harder than the plastic, so any sanding attempt removes more plastic than CA, so I favour using milliput for big gaps and Mr Surfacer for small gaps because they sand easier.
5. If there's a step between the two parts you're filling, sand it smooth before trying to fill the gap unless sanding it smooth would alter the shape of model.
I have also starting leaning toward milliput for gaps that are in hard to reach places like some wing roots, because it's hard to get in there and sand it, you can use the wet milliput with wet tools to smooth it out so sanding isn't required.
1. For tiny hairline seams, I find a lacquer primer like Gunze Mr Surfacer makes a better filler. You can build up several layers and sand it off. As long as you keep your layers reasonably thin it dries within a few minutes, though I still wait an hour or so before sanding. Expect to do multiple applications and sandings, but because it dries fast and sands easily you can build it up and sand it off several times before squadron or tamiya putty would dry once.
2. For moderately larger gaps, I use either squadron putty or tamiya putty. Several thin applications, the first application focusing on smooshing it right in to the gap otherwise when you sand it off the gap will reappear. Thick applications take longer to dry, a very thick application may not dry properly for a very long time because it melts the plastic. I don't plan to have this putty as my "final" surface, if it is smooth enough in the end that's great, but often it's hard to get a nice finish with this sort of putty and I'll still be able to see a hairline on the seam or where I cordoned off the area with tape there'll be a fine line because the putty slightly melted the plastic. So once I've got it "pretty good" I whip out the Mr Surfacer and use that for the final smoothing.
3. For big gaps I find a putty that DOESN'T melt the plastic is easier to use. I use milliput which is an epoxy putty. You can actually mix it with water if you're struggling to get it in to the gap. I find you want to be generous and apply quite a bit with water if necessary and then before it tries use a wet sculpting tool and wet Q-tip to smooth it and shape it. Milliput is sandable but unlike squadron or tamiya putty you can manipulate it before it dries so your aim should be to smooth it out to the point where little to no sanding is used.
4. When gluing stuff with plastic-melting glue, avoid using too much because a large puddle of molten plastic can take ages (like, weeks if not months) to dry properly so sometimes gaps will look fine and then slowly reappear. Paul Budzik covers it in a video...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WajXJPPyE8
One thing Paul mentions I've never been able to get to work is using CA cement as a filler. It seems there's a very small window where it's easy to sand, wait too long and it'll go hard, harder than the plastic, so any sanding attempt removes more plastic than CA, so I favour using milliput for big gaps and Mr Surfacer for small gaps because they sand easier.
5. If there's a step between the two parts you're filling, sand it smooth before trying to fill the gap unless sanding it smooth would alter the shape of model.
I have also starting leaning toward milliput for gaps that are in hard to reach places like some wing roots, because it's hard to get in there and sand it, you can use the wet milliput with wet tools to smooth it out so sanding isn't required.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Another way to fill small gaps, or hard to get at places, such as wing roots, is to use a mix of clear varnish (enamel or polyurethane, not acrylic) and talcum powder.
Pour the required amount of varnish into a suitable mixing bowl or dish (the cap off an aerosol can is ideal), and stir in the talcum powder, until a thick, but fluid 'porridge' like substance is created.
Run this into the gap to be filled, using an old paint brush, wipe off any excess overspill, and allow to set - around three hours on average, often much less.
When set, gently scrape off the excess, and then sand smooth.
(An enamel paint, preferably a light grey or white, can be used instead of the varnish, but I find the varnish works better.)
This process can also be used to fill unwanted panel lines, feint joints an those gaps which are too small to accept 'conventional' fillers.
Pour the required amount of varnish into a suitable mixing bowl or dish (the cap off an aerosol can is ideal), and stir in the talcum powder, until a thick, but fluid 'porridge' like substance is created.
Run this into the gap to be filled, using an old paint brush, wipe off any excess overspill, and allow to set - around three hours on average, often much less.
When set, gently scrape off the excess, and then sand smooth.
(An enamel paint, preferably a light grey or white, can be used instead of the varnish, but I find the varnish works better.)
This process can also be used to fill unwanted panel lines, feint joints an those gaps which are too small to accept 'conventional' fillers.
fubar57
General
You can replace the raised panel lines with very fine stretched sprue
- Thread starter
- #36
Robert Porter
Senior Master Sergeant
I love Paul's videos! His delivery is great! I keep hearing about milliput but have yet to find a local source, will have to peek online and see where I can get some to try. I have a bunch of spare sprue lying around so I think I will practice with many of the methods I have seen talked about it here by glueing together some sprue pieces and then filling and sanding and see what works best for me. Thanks very much for the information.
- Thread starter
- #37
Robert Porter
Senior Master Sergeant
I honestly had never thought of that! I have actually gotten pretty good at sprue stretching!
mikewint
Captain
May the gods of sprue stretching smile upon you. I've debated many times what is to me overkill. Those who whittle a set of Me109 rudder pedals 'cause the ones in the kit were "wrong" then the cockpit is sealed never to be seen again or the endless debates over the "EXACT" shade of RLM paint on a eastern front 190 in 1944. IMHO like dropping a MOAB on a group if trees hiding 3 Taliban
De gustibus non est disputandum
De gustibus non est disputandum
JKim
Senior Master Sergeant
I've learned tons of new techniques in the relatively short period that I've been posting here. Great suggestions from skilled modelers is good way to progress. Every technique has a learning curve and I think putty-work is one of those where you just have to dive in and get a feel for the materials that you have on hand.
I've been using Mr Surfacer 1000 and 500 for the majority of my corrective work. On the plus side: you can sand it down to a nice feathered edge and it dries relatively quickly (I usually give it 2-4 hours before I start sanding). The bad thing is that it shrinks so multiple applications are often necessary and it also smells to high heaven (make sure you wear a mask!). Thinned with lacquer thinner, it makes a great primer too.
When I want to maintain an edge or recessed line (when the joint corresponds to a panel line), I will use Milliput White. It's usually used for large area corrections but I like to use to fill long gaps i.e. joints between wings/fuselage, tail fuselage, etc. The great thing about Milliput is that it is water-soluble so you remove excess putty with a damp q-tip or paper towel, leaving only the material in the gap.
I need to learn how to use CA glue as a filler. I can see how it's properties (fast drying, strong and no shrinking) can be advantageous. I've heard that mixing it with talc will slow the drying process and will also reduce the hardness to make is similar to styrene plastic. What is talc and where can I buy it?
I've been using Mr Surfacer 1000 and 500 for the majority of my corrective work. On the plus side: you can sand it down to a nice feathered edge and it dries relatively quickly (I usually give it 2-4 hours before I start sanding). The bad thing is that it shrinks so multiple applications are often necessary and it also smells to high heaven (make sure you wear a mask!). Thinned with lacquer thinner, it makes a great primer too.
When I want to maintain an edge or recessed line (when the joint corresponds to a panel line), I will use Milliput White. It's usually used for large area corrections but I like to use to fill long gaps i.e. joints between wings/fuselage, tail fuselage, etc. The great thing about Milliput is that it is water-soluble so you remove excess putty with a damp q-tip or paper towel, leaving only the material in the gap.
I need to learn how to use CA glue as a filler. I can see how it's properties (fast drying, strong and no shrinking) can be advantageous. I've heard that mixing it with talc will slow the drying process and will also reduce the hardness to make is similar to styrene plastic. What is talc and where can I buy it?
The talc or talcum powder is a white dust. Usually it can be found in shops with cosmetic accesories for babies.
