'Hitler's Stealth Fighter' on National Geographic

[Henk]

Firstly I would like to say it is Ho-229 and not Gotha 229. Although Gotha got the contract to build the plane it was still a Horten product. They only helped the Horten brothers out with the manufacturing.

That said and done. It is funny how the TV shows will come to making a show about something and what they will use to make it a hit. I do not think the Horten brothers thought about stealth when they designed the plane.

Even when the B-2 project started they had a look at the Ho-229 to see if there is something they missed. The Horten brothers did do a great job when it came to designing flying wings for their time.

 

[GrauGeist]

Firstly I would like to say it is Ho-229 and not Gotha 229. Although Gotha got the contract to build the plane it was still a Horten product. They only helped the Horten brothers out with the manufacturing.

And that's why I usually post Ho229/Go229, because many folks mistake them for seperate aircraft

It is no coincidence that the B-2 looks alot like the Horton machine, because Jack Northrop was a wing pioneer like the Hortons and Lippisch and produced a number of "flying wings".

We had a great discussion about the wings in this thread: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aircraft-pictures/german-flying-wings-15300-2.html

 

[vikingBerserker]

It seams we could take the same criteria the show is using and state the Wright Flyer was the first true Stealth Aircraft.

 

[RabidAlien]

True dat....radar would probably pick up the pilot's watch before they'd see the plane..

 

[Soren]

One thing is for sure though, the Ho-229 wasn't designed to be a stealth fighter. That its actual stealth capabilities were discovered by the Germans during the prototype stage, resulting in a special coating to be added, is another matter though.

 

[DataBoy]

I guess we can all watch National Geographic on June 28th to
see the results. In the end, real data collected by experts
DATA don't take sides...

 

[GrauGeist]

I guess we can all watch National Geographic on June 28th to see the results. In the end, real data collected by experts
DATA don't take sides...

lol @ experts...

We just discussed the fact that radar technology was in it's infancy in the late 30's and early 40's...

There was no way they (the Germans) could have known anything regarding radar absorbing material (much of which hadn't been invented yet), let alone configuring the shape of the aircraft to reduce or manipulate the radar image on screens that only showed dots or "blips" and not any definition of objects. The dots were simply an indication of an something being detected wether it was a thin strip of tin foil or a B-24.

Had the technology been that far advanced, then the airwar in Korea would have been far different than it was, not to mention the technological developments that followed from then on.

 

[Konigstiger205]

Even if it was just a coincidence, the fact that the plane had stealth capabilities its still a remarkable thing. I look forward to the documentary, because I was truly curious about the Ho 229 performance and abilities.

 

[thehortenman]

Hope you enjoyed the show.

 

[GrauGeist]

Tim, welcome to the forum.

My main thing is that everyone is being led to beleive that the Ho-IX was designed as a stealth aircraft.

It wasn't, it's design was years in development and thier goal was to reduce drag as much as possible. Coupled with the lightweight materials, it was hoped that the Ho-IX design would allow the Luftwaffe to attack priority targets that were up to that point, impossible to reach because of range, defenses, etc.

It is true that Reiman used charcoal dust in the wood glue in an attempt to absorb radar waves, but the overall design and construction of the aircraft had nothing to do with modern stealth technology.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I just happend to be the lead on the HO 229 project at Northrop Grumman. I am one of those so called "Experts"... I have been building Stealth Prototypes and Models for 29 years now. My first project was Tacit Blue then the B-2 and the list goes on... I, and a group of other Engineers at Nothrop Grumman, Got a chance to look closely and test the skin of the real HO 229 at the Garber in Md. and it does contain a significant amount of carbon between all the outer skin layers. Also the historian, David Myhra discussed these issues with the Hortens in Argentina and they did know about the shielding/absorbing qualitys of carbon, I.E. (German Submarine parascopes).
I realize that many who dont know or understand the actual phenomenology behind Stealth and what makes it work may have their doubts but let me assure you, We do. We went to great lengths to recreate all aspects of the HO 229 to get real data. We did our homework. The finished model will be set up in the air museam in San Diego California on June 23 2009. It was fun to build it and I cant wait to build the next Model "America Bomber" With a wing span of 192' . Ya baby !

Tim

Good info Tim, a question.

This carbon between the outer skins layers of the -229. How is it laid out? Is it in sheets or mixed in with the resins used on the aircraft? How does it compare to some of the lay ups found on say the B-2? BTW I worked on the F-117 and "other" programs, a few of us here have worked around Stealth technology.

 

[thehortenman]

Hope you enjoyed the show.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Very interesting information. Thanks for sharing. It kind of sheds some light on the subject.

 

[Butters]

Great stuff, Tim. I hope that after the show is aired, you can give us some in-depth info on what was learned from the project.

It's great having your participation here. Thanks

JL

 

[johnbr]

Yes thanks for all the info and the hard work you all did on the Doc.

 

[RabidAlien]

I'll have to DVR it, now.

 

[A4K]

Interesting info Tim, thanks !

 

[Messy1]

Thanks! Very interesting stuff! When is the episode scheduled to air?

 

[thehortenman]

hope you enjoyed the show.

 

[ghethco]

I also had the privilege of working on "Hitler's Stealth Fighter". I built models of the Ho 229 and Ho XVIII for the film, in addition to building the cockpit for the full size model. I also play the pilot, Erwin Ziller, in a non-speaking role.

FWIW, my take on this -- as for whether the Ho 229 was designed for stealth or not, who cares? What makes the Ho 229 so fascinating is the fact that its development and testing is so mysterious. We don't even know for sure how many times the V2 was flown by Erwin Ziller. He didn't log all of his flights! Partly because of the unique nature of the project, and partly because of the Walter and Reimar's personalities, there are many unknowns and discrepancies surrounding the project. The brothers themselves added to the problem. After the war they did a certain amount of 'revision' themselves about the work and what motivated it. Their genius, however, is undeniable.

As a huge fan of the Horten brothers and their work, I'm just glad that this film got made. It's a fascinating plane that many people don't even know about. And I can tell you this -- if you're at all interested in the topic -- this film will knock your socks off!!! It sets a new standard for documentaries of this kind. In fact it's hard to call it a documentary at all. It's so much more than that. Tune in and find out

Gary