I agree with that statement.
How Europe Went to War in 1914
- Thread starter DonL
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swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 3,954
- Jun 25, 2013
The British (imho, mostly) and the French desire to control the Middle East was probably one factor in getting the Ottoman Empire onto the German side (Russia was the other factor, of course). The British and French governments thought that the Ottoman Empire's territories would be easy pickings (to be fair, the Ottoman Empire was moribund), and, at the time, Everybody Knew™ that only Europeans (and not all of them) could govern themselves.
It was Russia that Turkey feared, not Britain and France.
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 3,954
- Jun 25, 2013
Certainly, Russia had had its sights set on, among other places, Istanbul, for both the its long-running desire for ice-free ports and free navigation into, among other places, the Mediterranean and for religious reasons, to expel the Muslims from Constantinople. Even before WW1, the various powers had started to divvy up the Ottoman Empire, most obviously the Italians (who probably allied with the Entente as much in expectation of more concessions in North Africa as anything else).
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Oh come on, you know that British Imperial intentions were always for the betterment of the colonials. Not for exploitation...
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
Oh come on, you know that British Imperial intentions were always for the betterment of the colonials. Not for exploitation...
Well...
The belief in the benevolent British Empire lasted until its end. In general, Britons thought of their empire as a positive force which contributes not only to the economic and cultural development of their own country but also to that of uncivilised nations.
The history of the nineteenth-century practices of institutional benevolence are elegantly discussed by Patrick Brantlinger in his essay "A Short History of (Imperial) Benevolence." The author draws the reader's attention to some rhetorical strategies of British imperial humanitarian benevolence in action. The author convincingly demonstrates that benevolence has always been strongly linked to the concepts of political economy and utilitarian philosophy.
Benevolence was a major factor in ending slavery in part because it found an ally in the new science of economics. But — Brantlinger continues — there was no such fit between benevolence and economics concerning either how Aboriginals were treated or how the Irish Famine was dealt with. On the contrary, in those situations, the principles of political economy overruled humanitarian intentions.
We are cynical bastards, always were and always will be.
Which explains why we are welcomed around the world with warmth...
I don't think it was necessary to put it that way. Besides that, your Wiki citation (omitted) didn't answer a thing.
yulzari
Staff Sergeant
Ali Bin Hussain, Grand Sharif of Mecca and King of Hejaz and his sons were just as cynical as the allied leaders and the sons were more Turkish aristocrats than bedouin. They knew very well of the promises made about Palestine and Syria and remained in contact with the Turks until the end of the war.
This is not arab knocking but pointing out that no one was a wide eyed innocent in the politics of the middle east.
This is not arab knocking but pointing out that no one was a wide eyed innocent in the politics of the middle east.
parsifal
Colonel
Today is remembrance day....
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
Yes, Plymouth held its breath for 2 minutes as all ages remembered they fallen ancestors.
There were some interesting programmes covering the Somme at the weekend, which boiled down to what most have already stated.
The attack completely underestimated the strength of the German trenches especially the underground safe areas.
They overestimated the effect of the barrage which was poorly diected except in the sounth where the French gunners were more experienced.
They took no account of how very easy it was/is to set up machine guns to give cross fire across open ground...a matter of minutes.
The time of the attack was given away buy tunnelers who were having their phones tapped electromagnetically.
The best results results on day one were where the British had installed some massive flame throwers, no documents so it may be coincidence, but what a weapon, it could throw diesel/kerosine up to 70 metres, everything was in a tunnel with only the nozzle above ground.
Casualties at the end were stated at 1,000,000 for both sides and pretty much no advance. May they rest in peace
The attack completely underestimated the strength of the German trenches especially the underground safe areas.
They overestimated the effect of the barrage which was poorly diected except in the sounth where the French gunners were more experienced.
They took no account of how very easy it was/is to set up machine guns to give cross fire across open ground...a matter of minutes.
The time of the attack was given away buy tunnelers who were having their phones tapped electromagnetically.
The best results results on day one were where the British had installed some massive flame throwers, no documents so it may be coincidence, but what a weapon, it could throw diesel/kerosine up to 70 metres, everything was in a tunnel with only the nozzle above ground.
Casualties at the end were stated at 1,000,000 for both sides and pretty much no advance. May they rest in peace
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silence
Senior Airman
Actually Monty was a Monash fan, describing him as the greatest general of WW1.
I love little tidbits like this.
silence
Senior Airman
And today is our Veteran's Day.
silence
Senior Airman
A lot of us Americans feel similarly about the US today. While I love my country, I can also admit that we screw up a lot, but if you step back and look at things dispassionately screwing up has to be expected and accepted. Even the British Empire on occasion made mistakes!!!!!!!! (I know, hard to believe.)
What frosts me is my fellow countrymen et al who believe that "benevolent" equates to "perfect" and "most powerful" allows "carte blanche."
BRING BACK EMPEROR NORTON I!!!!!
Old Egyptian saying "It is better to be an enemy of the British than a friend, sooner or later they will sell their friends to buy their enemies". I am a Brit by the way.
Trouble is people remember the bad long after the good is forgotten. Remember Monty Pythons "what have the Romans ever done for us" sketch, sums it up in a nutshell.
parsifal
Colonel
Trying to understand the british psyche is dangerous. They can be a stubborn, irrational lot, sometimes not self serving either....like the Polish gurantees, or the refusal to surrender even when the odds are stacked and it seems hopeless.
Nothing worse than the British in control, yet no master better than the british. figure that one out if you can....
Nothing worse than the British in control, yet no master better than the british. figure that one out if you can....
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
Ah... Perfidious Albion. We are not the nicest of people collectively however, as individuals the British character strengths are self-restraint, hard work, resilience, optimism, courage, generosity, modesty, empathy, kindness and good manners. Old-fashioned values and easy to sneer at I suppose.
The art of queueing escapes most other cultures but, its what we do....
Michael is quite right, we are a paradox.
silence
Senior Airman
Heh - most of my "ancestral blood" is German, Welsh, and Scots-Irish. Guess that means (with apologies) I'm a goose-stepping frothing-at-the-mouth blue-painted barbarian who can't decide whether to conquer and occupy or just pillage and move on. No wonder I'm usually confused.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I would have never made it in the Customer Service realm with my ancestry:
German/Prussian, Highlander Scott (two clans) and Oglala Sioux Indian.
When they call me a mean bastard, I take it as a compliment
