parsifal
Colonel
I have a russian wife, a German stepfather, an Irish grandmother, a Cornish Granfather (both on Mums side) and a scottish heritage on my natural fathers side.
I dont think i have any hope.....
I dont think i have any hope.....
How Europe Went to War in 1914
- Thread starter DonL
- Start date
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yulzari
Staff Sergeant
Being british/english/french/alsatian/bulgarian/spanish/danish I am something of a post nationalist and tend to think of myself as European so I have changed my flag as a token step.
To me it is a symbol that the madness of this thread, which took my grandfather and father to war for 12 years, is over and we see how similar we are, not how different.
To me it is a symbol that the madness of this thread, which took my grandfather and father to war for 12 years, is over and we see how similar we are, not how different.
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Premier league football?
silence
Senior Airman
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Now I need to watch that skit again!!
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
I'm a bit confused.
Surely you are Americans / Australians first with your individual family history.
Or, do you think of yourselves as German - Americans , Anglo - Americans etc?
I say this after listening to a radio debate about 'being English'. The points were (briefly) (1) Are you British first, so an Indian could say he was an British Asian and so on. (2) Is birth in England enough, or do you need generations of English parents plus birth to claim to be English? It all got very complicated and some callers were really quite rude and unpleasant.
I thought.. oh bollocks, I know who I am so the other PC ****ers can **** off
Surely you are Americans / Australians first with your individual family history.
Or, do you think of yourselves as German - Americans , Anglo - Americans etc?
I say this after listening to a radio debate about 'being English'. The points were (briefly) (1) Are you British first, so an Indian could say he was an British Asian and so on. (2) Is birth in England enough, or do you need generations of English parents plus birth to claim to be English? It all got very complicated and some callers were really quite rude and unpleasant.
I thought.. oh bollocks, I know who I am so the other PC ****ers can **** off
You're just all dutch. You even needed a dutch king and you guys lost at sea from us.
silence
Senior Airman
I'm a bit confused.
Surely you are Americans / Australians first with your individual family history.
Or, do you think of yourselves as German - Americans , Anglo - Americans etc?
I say this after listening to a radio debate about 'being English'. The points were (briefly) (1) Are you British first, so an Indian could say he was an British Asian and so on. (2) Is birth in England enough, or do you need generations of English parents plus birth to claim to be English? It all got very complicated and some callers were really quite rude and unpleasant.
I thought.. oh bollocks, I know who I am so the other PC ****ers can **** off
I personally think of myself as American and if asked my heritage is mixed. I'm a 5th generation Californian and my sister qualifies for the D.A.R. (Daughters of the American Revolution - you may be familiar with it !!!!), so my status as an American dates back to the birth of the nation. The last familial immigrant I know of was my mother's grandfather.
And I really think most Americans who are American by birth think of themselves as Americans first when you get right down to it, regardless of their heritage. My feeling is that any American citizen regardless of where they were born is an American: I truly believe in the statement on the Statue of Liberty.
As far as Aussies go, I have no idea. I do know however, that some kiwis (well, one that I know) seem to think of AU as still being populated with criminals. What's up with that? Seems kinda harsh.
silence
Senior Airman
I'm a bit confused.
Surely you are Americans / Australians first with your individual family history.
Or, do you think of yourselves as German - Americans , Anglo - Americans etc?
I say this after listening to a radio debate about 'being English'. The points were (briefly) (1) Are you British first, so an Indian could say he was an British Asian and so on. (2) Is birth in England enough, or do you need generations of English parents plus birth to claim to be English? It all got very complicated and some callers were really quite rude and unpleasant.
I thought.. oh bollocks, I know who I am so the other PC ****ers can **** off
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a "Brit" basically a catch-all for any citizen of the Empire, while an "Englishman/Scot/etc." someone of that specific heritage? (See all the confusion having an actual Empire can cause?!?!?!)
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I usually refer to myself as a Californian as well as an American, being born in Southern California (back when California was a good place to be).
It's always good to know one's roots, but a person's place of birth can be just as important. My Scottish ancestors were a mix of Saxons and native Scotts (Mac Beans) or native Scotts (Royal Stuart), my German ancestry was mostly Saxon and the Prussian side is aparently German and Teuton (would like to know more details there, perhaps in time) and the Sioux is pretty self-evident.
I'm proud of my ancestry, but I am an American.
It's always good to know one's roots, but a person's place of birth can be just as important. My Scottish ancestors were a mix of Saxons and native Scotts (Mac Beans) or native Scotts (Royal Stuart), my German ancestry was mostly Saxon and the Prussian side is aparently German and Teuton (would like to know more details there, perhaps in time) and the Sioux is pretty self-evident.
I'm proud of my ancestry, but I am an American.
silence
Senior Airman
You're just all dutch. You even needed a dutch king and you guys lost at sea from us.
huh? I seem to remember the RN having a rather noticeable presence world-wide from about the late 1500s on.
And I assume you mean William of Orange?
(Pardon the questions, but I like clarity - probably since I'm usually somewhat foggy)
silence
Senior Airman
Well said, sir. (Sorry about the SoCal part!; my family's always been NoCal and I still love CA, up here at least.)
I have German blood on both sides, and on mom's side its been traced back to the 1200s so far to an area about 60mi. North of Berlin. My Scots clan is Douglas.
I guess with all our mixed heritages American have a natural curiosity for genealogy.
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
The term 'British citizen' is a catch all as you say. But, within our union no one is 'British', we are English, Welsh, Scots, Cornish, or Northern Irish. Its gets complicated as with the term 'English' you have the northern and southern people. Culturally poles apart and we don't understand each other... The Scots are a very proud people and the 'highlanders' and 'islanders' even more so.The Welsh are, er unique.... We are a complicated nation
Well it's sure good to see you boys got this thread back on track after it took that digression into oil.You're just all dutch. You even needed a dutch king and you guys lost at sea from us.
parsifal
Colonel
The problem in this sub discussion is that it is looking at the British- rest of the world relationship through 2013 eyes. things are different, and perceptions are differnt to what they were in 1914. And it varied according to individuals and nations.
For Australians, the relationship changed fundamentally in 1942, wit the fall of Singapore and Britains weakness exposed. britain was shown as no longer having the strength to protect us from our many big enemies. We at once became more independant in our thinking, and at the same time transferred our allegiances mostly to the US.
In 1914 things were different. Britain was still a superpower, our benefactor, our chief export market. We still believed that British Seapower would save us from invasion. There was no hesitation for us. I think it was PM Andrew Fisher who said "we shall fight to defend Brityain to our last shilling and last ounce of blood. we very nearly did.
For Australians, the relationship changed fundamentally in 1942, wit the fall of Singapore and Britains weakness exposed. britain was shown as no longer having the strength to protect us from our many big enemies. We at once became more independant in our thinking, and at the same time transferred our allegiances mostly to the US.
In 1914 things were different. Britain was still a superpower, our benefactor, our chief export market. We still believed that British Seapower would save us from invasion. There was no hesitation for us. I think it was PM Andrew Fisher who said "we shall fight to defend Brityain to our last shilling and last ounce of blood. we very nearly did.
Within our Union everyone is British, that's why we all have the same passport which states we are British citizens. We may wish to identify ourself as belonging to one of the four nations which makes up the Union, but internationally we all belong to the single state of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom
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Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
I am quite well aware of that Redcoat. British citizens /subjects and this is our nationality.
My point to our overseas friends is that within Britain you have other strong senses of identity /heritage.
When I am abroad should someone ask me where I am from I always say 'I'm English'.
Apart from USA Immigration who unfailingly point out that 'you're not English you are British...get to back of the queue' no one else has a problem with this.
Michiel de Ruyter sailed to Chatham and kicked the hell out of the RN, giving the British a bloody nose (unfortunately he was beaten later in another battle, but you can't have it all).
And indeed one of the William of Oranges was king of England.
But let's get the thread back on the rails...
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
Ok Marcel... where were we?
I think we were discussing the origins of ww1.
One remark I think I read a while back fron DonL was that he thought the reclamation of the German Empire in 1871 was not one of the causes of ww1, or something to that effect. I cannot find it, but it is in this thread somewhere.
My answer to that is that the the fact that Wilhelm I was crowned in the Hall of Mirrors in Versailles, of all places. This is of course an insult in the eyes of every proud Frenchman, which doesn't help to lessen the tention that was already there. Although not a direct cause, it certainly helped on the road to WWI.
One remark I think I read a while back fron DonL was that he thought the reclamation of the German Empire in 1871 was not one of the causes of ww1, or something to that effect. I cannot find it, but it is in this thread somewhere.
My answer to that is that the the fact that Wilhelm I was crowned in the Hall of Mirrors in Versailles, of all places. This is of course an insult in the eyes of every proud Frenchman, which doesn't help to lessen the tention that was already there. Although not a direct cause, it certainly helped on the road to WWI.
