How Europe Went to War in 1914

[parsifal]

Ill see if things can be done better this time around. Ive already given one apology, but I really should apologise to everyone else as well i guess. So there it is.

The official histories are always a good start, but there are limits to what these accounts can give. They are always biased one way or another, some more than others.

Stuff linked to primary records is good, but even here, sometimes has to be verified by cross referencing. Its not easy.

 

[michaelmaltby]

"...IMO David Glantz is the gold standard for history of WWII Russian front. "

Agree.

 

[VBF-13]

Well, I think it could be interesting to discuss the start of WWI if everyone would leave their nationalistic bullshit behind. Could be very interesting and educational. But I guess this is not to be on this forum.....

I've got the advantage I guess, we were neutral

Yeah, deal, I'm in. Just don't look at me. I didn't do it. I wasn't even in that neighborhood.

 

[Marcel]

Yeah, deal, I'm in. Just don't look at me. I didn't do it. I wasn't even in that neighborhood.

I was a neutral

 

[silence]

"...IMO David Glantz is the gold standard for history of WWII Russian front. "

Agree.

Yep. I just wish his writing was not quite so dry.

 

[silence]

Maybe Hasbro could make a "Who Started WW1" version of Clue?

 

[Readie]

I was a neutral

We weren't and I have inherited a legacy that, on occasions, can colour my views. But, I have learnt a lot from interaction on this site and am happy to learn and to understand others legacy and views.

Tricky waters but, quite navigable

John

 

[parsifal]

It wasnt just Europe that went to war in 1914.....

Australia's first national military force, the AIF (Australian Imperial Force) was formed at the outbreak of World War One. (1914)

When war broke out in Europe in August 1914, Australia immediately supported Britain, following its example by declaring war on Germany. It was obligated to do so, at that stage we had no control over our foreign policy. Most Australians were enthusiastic about the idea of helping Britain, and defending her if necessary. My grandfather and a man named Doyle were working as stockmen in the northern territory at a huge station (with a land area bigger than the whole of England) at the time, and in 1914 drove several hundred horses for the newly forming Mounted Div, which became known as the Light Horse. Droving hundreds of wild horses to the port of Brisbane was a feat never before attempted, but they did manage it with a minimum of of losses to the herd.

At this time the vast majority of Australians (approximately 95%) were from British background. Thousands of men rushed to join the Australian Imperial Force (AIF) which was set up to serve overseas. With the New Zealand forces they became known as the Anzacs. The Australian population was about 4.5 million, and in the end about 400,000 men volunteered for service. Most were sent overseas and fought at Gallipoli, in France and Belgium, or in Palestine in the desert. More than half of them had been killed or wounded by the end of the war in 1918. (59,258 were killed, 4,084 were taken prisoner and 166,815 were wounded). About 2,000 women also served overseas as nurses. The terrible suffering and loss of life, as well as economic difficulties at home, meant that as time went on, fewer and fewer people wanted to join the AIF, and there was more opposition throughout the community to Australia's involvement in the war.

It was the beginning of a most gruelling 4 years for the country and my family. My grandfather was one of 750 men who joined the 7th Light Horse Regiment in 1914. he was the only surviving member that came through the war in one peace, though he suffered for the rest of his life from Post traumatic stress disorder for the rest of his life. He had 6 brothers, he was the youngest. I think 3 or 4 others also fought, and at least 2 of them did not come back.

I knew my grandfather and loved him greatly. he died a slow, agonising death, brought on in large measure by his war experiences. It colours my thinking and attitudes to this day.

My spoke with my stepfather, a stalingrad veteran (german, iron cross recipient) about what had happened in this forum with the Lusitania thread. He is 91, and one of the clearest coolest heads I know. He says, simply, how many individuals do i think benefit from war. Very wise words in my opinion.

 

[DonL]

Parsifal,

please can you give an overview how independent Australia was 1914?
To my sources Australia got it's independence at 26.09.1907

From this point on, had Australia an independent government with their own interests in economic and military and how independent was the economy without Great Britain?

 

[davebender]

Michael Reynolds is a bit better in that regard when describing combat. So is Terence Zuber.

However any accurate description of combat is going to appear dry to those without a military background. Military operation orders and after action reports are an acquired taste.

 

[parsifal]

Parsifal,

please can you give an overview how independent Australia was 1914?
To my sources Australia got it's independence at 26.09.1907

From this point on, had Australia an independent government with their own interests in economic and military and how independent was the economy without Great Britain?

Hi DonL

Briefly, Australia only became a nation in 1901. Before that there were separate states, that acquired independance, in the sense of establishing an independant legislature at various points in the 1800s.

However Australia did not achieve independance in foreign policy until 1931. until then our foreign relations were control by the british foreign office, or the colonial office (I forget which)

 

[Marcel]

Great post Parcifal!

 

[Shinpachi]

Very educational, gentlemen.
I believe this thread is one of the most educational ones in this forum.

 

[michaelmaltby]

"....how many individuals do i think benefit from war. Very wise words in my opinion."

Very wise, indeed.

Great you still have him.

MM

 

[stona]

How Europe stumbled into to world war 1.

Treaties

Sabre rattling

Mobilisations

Railways, which got the mobilised troops to the borders and facing each other quickly.

Sort of after AJP Taylor.

Steve

 

[michaelmaltby]

Worth reading:

Robert Fisk: The flood of 1914-18 memorabilia has begun ? and it will break your heart - Comment - Voices - The Independent

 

[parsifal]

The major events leading to outbreak of war. This is not a comlete list, but even the basic events leading to war are complicated and long in the making
http://www.timetoast.com/timelines/124977


19th Apr, 1839

Guarantee of Belgium Neutrality – This document guaranteed that France, Russia, Prussia, Austria and Great Britain would recognize Belgium as an independent and neutral country

19th Jul, 1870

10 May 1971, The Franco-Prussian War breaks out, Prussia emerges victorious. This heightens tensions between France and Prussia.


18th Jan, 1871

The German Empire is created out of Prussia. Kaiser Wilhelm I takes the throne.


10th May, 1871

France was obligated to sign a degrading treaty with Germany to officially end the war.

7th Oct, 1879

1879: The Dual Alliance was an Austro-German treaty which stated that the countries would support each other if Russia were to wage war on them


18th Jun, 1881

Three Emperor's League– The original alliance between Austria-Hungary, Germany, and Russia was secretly renewed.


28th Jun, 1881

Austro-Serbian Alliance – Austria-Hungary made an alliance with Serbia because they wanted to soothe tensions of the Slavic peoples


20th Mar, 1882

The Triple Alliance- this secret agreement was established between Germany, Austria-Hungary and Italy to state that the three countries would come to each other's aid if attacked.


1st Jan, 1883

The Austro-Romanian Alliance –This alliance strengthened both countries, especially Austria-Hungary because they already had an alliance with Russia and Germany

Year specified; Day and month not specified


1st Jan, 1884

1885, The Berlin Conference - This conference was held to divide Africa up into sections that European countries colonized. Many countries involved in World War One attended.

Years specified; Day and month not specified


1st Nov, 1884

Tsar Nicholas was crowned king of Russia – This gave Russia the King that would start their involvement in World War One. He was Cousins with the Czar and King George V – heir to the British Throne.


15th Jun, 1888

Wilhelm II becomes Emperor of Germany – This gave Germany the Kaiser that would initiate their involvement in World War One.


1st Jan, 1889

1913, The Anglo-German Naval Race – The English and the Germans start to focus on strengthening their naval fleets.

Years specified; Day and month not specified


4th Jun, 1894

The Franco-Russian Alliance – This alliance assured both countries support from the other if attacked by the Triple Alliance

22nd Jan, 1901

Queen Victoria dies, King George V takes over. This king would see Britain through World War One.


8th Apr, 1904

The Entente Cordiale- An agreement made to form friendship and understanding between Britain and France.


30th Jul, 1904

2 Jan 1905, The Russo-Japanese War- Japan destroyed the entire Russian army which surprised the rest of the world and humiliated Russia.


31st Aug, 1907

The Anglo-Russian Agreement.- Great Britain and Russia agreed to leave Persia alone as a neutral country.


31st Aug, 1907

he Triple Entente – Russia joined Britain and France from the Entente Cordiale to form the Triple Entente in fear of Germany's rising power. The Anglo-Russian entente lead to this.


6th Oct, 1908

Austria-Hungary annexes Bosnia which was formerly under control of the Ottoman Empire.


29th Sep, 1911

Oct 1912, Turkish-Italian War.- Also known as the The Tripolitan War. Conflict between the Ottoman Turks and the Italians


8th Oct, 1912

30 May 1913, The First Balkan War.- A war between Turkey, Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, and Montenegro. Turkey lost and lost all of its European 'possessions'.


1st Nov, 1912

Anglo-French Naval Agreement- An agreement that promised Britain's protection of French coastlines from German attack. The French agreed to protect the Suez Canal in return.

Year and month specified; Day no specified


4th Mar, 1913

Woodrow Wilson sworn in as US president. This gave the United Staes the President that would see them through the war.

29th Jun, 1913

31 July 1913, The Second Balkan War.- Bulgaria wanted more territory, so they fought with their allies to get it. Romania got Bulgarian capital Sofia. Bulgaria lost Adrianople to Turkey.


28th Jun, 1914

Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary assassinated in Sarajevo by a Serbian activist. Most people state that this is what started World War I.

 

[parsifal]

One of the bits of flotsam that fell out of the European machinations was the federation of Australia. Fear of Russian and later german invasions led many of the nations population to believe our only hope of effective national defence was to Federate the separate states in Australia into one nation.

 

[silence]

oh, what a tangled web we weave...

 

[silence]

One of the bits of flotsam that fell out of the European machinations was the federation of Australia. Fear of Russian and later german invasions led many of the nations population to believe our only hope of effective national defence was to Federate the separate states in Australia into one nation.

Seems to me that they're so remote form Germany and Russia that the fear of invasion seems a bit fantastical. I don't see either country able to land a strong enough force at one time to successfully take on the An(Zac)s on their home ground.