If only ......

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Historian David McCullough stated, "people living 'back then' didn't know they were living 'back then'," and to judge the decisions of people in 1945 by the standards of 2018 is not only ahistorical, it is pointless. Truman and his advisers made the only decision they could have made; indeed, considered in the context of World War II, it wasn't really much of a decision at all. Had Truman and his commanders shrunk from doing everything possible to force the war to its end, the American people would never have forgiven them. This judgment no doubt mattered more to these leaders than the disapproval of academic historians a half century later, and rightly so.

In general there are three arguments usually made against the use of the bomb in 1945. First, that to use the bomb only against Japan was racist; second, that it was pointless; and third, that it was done purely for political effect that had more to do with the Soviet Union than with the war in the Pacific.

#1. The Racist Argument - The "White" US would never use a nuclear bomb against "White Germans". It is difficult to believe that the Allies would have spared the Germans anything after turning the streets of German cities like Dresden to glass under repeated firebombing. Now there is evidence that FDR's advisers thought about using the bomb against Germany, however, while the dangers of radiation weren't completely known it was known that they were deadly (two scientists had died horrible deaths of radiation poisoning while working on the Manhattan Project). An atomic bomb dropped on a land-locked country like Germany posed a radiation threat to other allied countries. There were also many thousands of Americans of German descent; would a political Truman have dared angered them with a nuclear bomb on Germany? The more obvious objection, however, is that the first atomic test took place in July 1945, two months after the Nazi surrender in May, but by the time Truman took office, it was a moot point: the Nazis were beaten and the invasion of Germany was winding down, not gearing up.

#2. It was pointless: The Japanese Navy, Army, and Air Force were defeated. Truman should have realized that Japan was beaten?
This is one of those arguments that assumes modern-day omniscience on the part of historical figures. The fact of the matter is that Japan was not preparing to surrender; it was preparing to fight to the death. The invasion of the Japanese home islands was not going to look like the invasion of Germany, where the Nazi armies were crushed between advancing U.S. and British forces on one side and Soviet troops on the other. The Japanese home island invasion was projected to cost a half-million to a million Allied and Japanese lives— all in what should have been the last months of the war. OK, we've all heard that one before but let's assume that Harry Truman was either duped or made an honest mistake, and that the invasion casualty estimates were way off. (One historian has suggested that these estimates were ten times too high .) If the figure of 500,000 – 1,000,000 casualties was wrong, then Truman was only risking, ONLY mind you, 50,000 – 100,000 lives. But would even one more Allied death have been worth not dropping the bomb, in the minds of the president and his advisors, after six years of the worst fighting in the history of the human race?
Let's go down that road: The war ends, with yet more massive bloodshed, probably at some point in 1946. The existence of the bomb becomes known, and the president of the United States has to explain to hundreds of thousands of grieving parents and wounded veterans that he did not use it because he thought it was too horrible to drop on the enemy, even after a sneak attack, a global war, hundreds of thousands of Americans killed and wounded in two theaters, and years of ghastly firebombing. Seventy years later, we would likely be writing retrospectives on "the impeachment/execution of Harry S. Truman."

#3. The political effect on the Soviet Union and keeping them out of Japan.
There's no doubt that the Americans wanted the war over before the Soviets could enter Japan. From the victory at Stalingrad in 1943 onward, U.S. leaders realized that Stalin's Soviet Union was not interested in a peaceful world order policed by the great powers. The Americans were in a hurry to force a Japanese surrender, but they had no way of knowing whether that surrender was imminent. Ward Wilson, for one, claims that the Japanese surrendered not because of the bomb but because of the Soviet entry into the Pacific war, but only the most cold-blooded president would have counted on this and held America's greatest weapon in reserve.

By August 1945, relations between the Soviet Union and the United States had deteriorated badly. The Potsdam Conference between U.S. President Harry S. Truman, Russian leader Joseph Stalin, and Winston Churchill ended just four days before the bombing of Hiroshima. The meeting was marked by recriminations and suspicion between the Americans and Soviets. Russian armies were occupying most of Eastern Europe. Truman and many of his advisers hoped that the U.S. atomic monopoly might offer future diplomatic leverage with the Soviets and a quick lone US defeat of Japan without a Soviet invasion would keep them out of Japan.
Now let's revisit #2 above, i.e., Truman decides not to drop the bomb and the US and Soviets invade Japan. The Soviets fight their way through Japan. They like the US taking huge casualties in the process before Japan is defeated. As above after the war's end the existence of the bomb becomes known both in America and Russia. The speeches Stalin and his successors would have given during the Cold War write themselves: "America allowed Soviet soldiers to spill their blood on the beaches of Japan, while Truman and his criminal gang protected the secret of their ultimate weapon. We shall never forget, nor forgive, this useless squandering of Soviet lives…"
 
As I touched on briefly a few posts back, Japan still had considerable manpower on the Asian continent, too. A non-nuclear decision would mean those IJN and IJA forces would still be available to the Empire aside from their assets on the home islands.

A conventional approach would have been a long drawn out, miserable affair costing countless lives on either side.
 
This might be a good place to tell something I heard back in the late 70s if memory serves. I drove between cities/towns on service calls and listened to talk radio out of New Orleans. Any subject except race and/or religion was allowed. A man I later learned was given the handle "the German soldier" happened to call in just before the 4th of July when many callers were criticizing the US. Here is what he had to say in a heavy German accent. " I cannot tolerate you talking about your country this way. You live in the best country in the world. I could live anywhere. Here is why I live here. I was in the German army seven years. I was sent to fight in Russia. I was not wounded until just two weeks before the end as we retreated to Berlin. When I woke up I was a Russian prisoner. I was sent to Siberia. In 1955, anyone below corporal was sent home to Germany. Over the years, the only others sent back were those who went insane, so I became insane and was sent back in 1962. When I tried to find my mother, no one knew of her but I was told to try the USO. They knew where she was. It was then I was determined to get my mother to the US because any country who would care for their enemy was where I wanted her to live." He told of getting her here and she became a citizen. Callers called in to ask why he hadn't become a citizen and he said he didn't deserve to be one since he fought against the allies. I learned later that he went through the process to be a citizen because of the callers' urging. On one other day, callers were saying the German soldier should wright a book about his life and the talk show host said he had, but I no longer remember his name or the title.
 
People who have never been outside the US and have never seen/experienced the conditions, political and physical, that most of the world lives under fail to appreciate and guard what we here in the states have, and as you posted, take very much for granted.
As to the German soldiers story, the Allies, US included were not as horrible to captured German soldiers and civilians as were the Russians BUT...

Under the Geneva Conventions, POWs are to be sent home within months of the end of the war. The Allies instead decided to hold prisoner many POWs. To side-step the Geneva Convention the POWs had been redesignated as "disarmed enemy forces" and were used as slave laborers, providing "labor reparations" to rebuild the damage inflicted by Nazi aggression in the west. In the spring of 1945, the US held 3.4 million German POWs and Britain held 2,150,000 . According to the International Red Cross these men were divided up among the various allied nations to provide these "reparations". The demands of France for "labor reparations" were considered especially compelling. After screening the POWs, releasing the old men and boys of the "Volkssturm," and detaining Nazis for prosecution, the USA transferred 740,000 of the remainder (including some of those shipped back to Europe from the USA) to France. By August of 1946 the United States held 140,000 (US Occupation Zone) 680,000 were still held in France, 30,000 in Italy, 14,000 in Belgium, Yugoslavia 80,000, Belgium 48,000, Czechoslovakia 45,000, Luxembourg 4,000, Holland 1,300 and Great Britain held 460,000 German slaves. The Soviet Union had captured 4,000,000 - 5,000,000 German soldiers and civilians who disappeared into the USSR.

The conditions for German soldiers in Allied captivity were horrific, with severe food shortages (a Red Cross train load of food for the German POWs…whoops…Disarmed Enemy Forces had been stopped and turned around) and often inadequate or nonexistent shelter (The worst US temporary enclosures were the 16 "Rheinwiesenlager" ("Rhine meadow camps"). These were simply barb-wire enclosures out in the open, with no shelter apart from what the DEFs might dig in the ground, and nothing to sit or lie on (above the mud and puddles) apart from their own helmets and greatcoats for those who had them. This was during the spring and summer, when there was no danger of freezing; nevertheless, given Germany's cooler, wetter climate, these open barbed-wire "cages" were much more of a hardship than similar temporary expedients in North Africa and Italy. 557,000 DEFs were held from April to July 1945 in the six worst of these: Bad Kreuznach-Bretzenheim, Remagen-Sinzig, Rheinberg, Heidesheim, Wickrathberg, and Büderich . The Maschke Commission would later tabulate 4,537 parish-registered deaths in these 6 worst RWLs, 774 from the others. They thought the actual death toll might be twice this, but were skeptical of an eyewitness claim of 32,000 deaths.
 
I agree that revenge takes over. After the surrender and into the occupation, there were cases of the "Werewolves" continuing the war against the allies and; cases where GIs having lost comrades to the SS went into homes to find paybooks of returned Germans (paybooks could NEVER be lost in the German army) and if they were to be found SS, they were taken out and disappeared.
 
I keep seeing quotes floating around from the book "Other Losses" by James Bacque, which is a favorite among conspiracy theorists, revisionists and "Yankee Bashers". It was debunked not long after it was first published in the 1980's.

A good place to start, would be here: Other Losses - Wikipedia

Here's a good essay and coverage of the subject with solid book resources at the conclusion of the essay: James Coon on James Bacque (1997)
 
In April, the War Department approved treating all members of the German armed forces captured after the declaration of ECLIPSE conditions or the cessation of hostilities, and all prisoners of war not evacuated from Germany immediately after the conclusion of hostilities, as "disarmed enemy forces," and specified that such captives would be responsible for feeding and maintaining themselves. The ruling did not apply to war criminals, wanted individuals, and security suspects, who were to be imprisoned, fed, and controlled by Allied forces. The War Department further directed that be no public declaration was to be made on the status of the German armed forces.
Page 93
--Arthur Lee Smith
Oldenbourg, 1992 - Germany - 141 pages

"One category of military personnel which was refused the advantages of the Convention in the course of the Second World War comprised German and Japanese troops who fell into enemy hands on the capitulation of their countries in 1945. The German capitulation was both political, involving the dissolution of the Government, and military whereas the Japanese capitulation was only military. Moreover, the situation was different since Germany was a party to the 1929 Convention and Japan was not. Nevertheless, the German and Japanese troops were considered as surrendered enemy personnel and were deprived of the protection provided by the 1929 Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. The Allied authorities took the view that unconditional surrender amounted to giving a free hand to the Detaining Powers as to the treatment they might give to military personnel who fell into their hands following the capitulation. In fact, these men were frequently in a very different situation from that of their comrades who had been taken prisoner during the hostilities, prisoners in this category had their personal property impounded without any receipt being given; they had no spokesman to represent them before the Detaining Power; officers received no pay and other ranks, although compelled to work, got no wages; in any penal proceedings they had the benefit of none of the guarantees provided by the Convention. Most important of all, these men had no legal status and were at the entire mercy of the victor."
-- ICRC Commentaries on the Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War Article 5

"Under the present provision, the Convention applies to persons who "fall into the power" of the enemy. This term is also used in the opening sentence of Article 4, replacing the expression "captured" which was used in the 1929 Convention (Article 1). It indicates clearly that the treatment laid down by the Convention is applicable not only to military personnel taken prisoner in the course of fighting, but also to those who fall into the hands of the adversary following surrender or mass capitulation."
-- ICRC Commentaries on the Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War Article 5


" In the first phase of construction, which was rather prolonged, these enclosures consisted of only barbed wire fences in fields. Later, some canvas was provided, and still later, some buildings were put up. For most of the time, prisoners were without cover and were exposed to rain and snow and mud in the ending winter, and to heat, dust, or rain and mud as spring advanced to early summer. Some of the enclosures resembled Andersonville Prison in 1864"
-- MEDICAL DEPARTMENT, UNITED STATES ARMY PREVENTIVE MEDICINE IN WORLD WAR II, Volume IX, SPECIAL FIELDS, Prepared and published under the direction of Lieutenant General LEONARD D. HEAT0N The Surgeon General, United States Army Editor in Chief, Colonel ROBERT S. ANDERSON, MC, USA Editor for Preventive Medicine, EBBE CURTIS HOFF, PhD, M D Assistant Editor, PHEBE M. HOFF, M.A., OFFICE OF THE SURGEON GENERAL DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY WASHINGTON, D.C., 1969, Pg 381

Throughout the summer of 1945, the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) was prevented from visiting prisoners in any of the Allies' Rheinwiesenlager. Visits were only started in the autumn of 1945, at a time when most camps had closed or were closing. The Red Cross was granted permission to send delegations to visit camps in the French and UK occupation zones. On 4 February 1946 the Red Cross was allowed to send relief to those in the U.S. run occupation zone. The International Red Cross website states "The quantities received by the ICRC for these captives remained very small, however. During their visits, the delegates observed that German prisoners of war were often detained in appalling conditions.
Official United States statistics conclude there were just over 3,000 deaths in the Rheinwiesenlager while German figures state them to be 4,537. American academic R. J. Rummel believes the figure is around 6,000.
-- R.J. Rummel STATISTICS OF DEMOCIDE: Chapter 13: Death By American Bombing And Other Democide

In 2003, historian Richard Dominic Wiggers argued that the Allies violated international law regarding the feeding of enemy civilians, and that they both directly and indirectly caused the unnecessary suffering and death of large numbers of civilians and prisoners in occupied Germany, guided partly by a spirit of postwar vengeance when creating the circumstances that contributed to their deaths.
--Steven Bela Vardy and T. Hunt Tooley, eds. Ethnic Cleansing in Twentieth-Century Europe ISBN 0-88033-995-0. subsection by Richard Dominic Wiggers, "The United States and the Refusal to Feed German Civilians after World War II" pg. 281
 
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The problem here is that both the Nazis and the communists are leftist. Both spring from the same root of totalitarianism.
"Right" would be the traditional monarchist, believing and promoting the traditions of western civilization, which had fallen out of favor in the industrialized nations as "outdated". Progressivism then, as now, demands that outdated beliefs, morals and laws be done away with to clear the way for a utopian future that cannot be achieved with these impediments.
One could trace this all the way back to the Protestant revolution and the Enlightenment.


The left, historically, had several somewhat incompatible elements: expansion of individual liberties, increase in economic mobility by, among other things, universal public education, and weakening hierarchies, especially those based on birth. The right was opposed to all of those, placing power into traditional institutions and promoting birthright-based hierarchies.

Nationalism was somewhat orthogonal to both: early 19th Century conservatives were more concerned with centralized control, and were frequently opposed to nationalism, especially if it involved regional autonomy. On the other hand, in a unitary state, it could be very handy for social control
 

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