Italian Stuka - From the Hasegawa kit in 1:32.

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Wurger said:
Humm... undoubtedly the colour looks more like RLM02 than the RLM71. I think it is incorrect one. The difference between tonalities of RLM70 and RLM71 is almost imperceptible in B&W images.
Click to expand...

I understand what you mean and I've to think about it.
Cheers
Alberto
 
It's up to you only what you will do. Unless these Italian Stuka bombers were re-painted. Then it might be correct.


This one is quite close. But the RLM71 could be a little bit greenish.

 
Wurger said:
It's up to you only what you will do. Unless these Italian Stuka bombers were re-painted. Then it might be correct.


This one is quite close. But the RLM71 could be a little bit greenish.

Click to expand...

Hi,
many thanks for your comment.
I appreciate it very much because my goal in making a model, is always to try to represent be as much as possible the real aircraft.

About Italian repainting, as far as I know, i was only concerning the area were the original German codes and markings needed to be covered

Verde Oliva Scuro was used on fuselage and upper wings and Grigio Azzurro Chiaro on lower wing surfaces.

But I think that the light at which the pictures were taken, played a big role, look at this picture:

the contrast is very evident, then look at this one

almost no differences between the two tones

Therefore also the artworks, like the above one, but not only came out with evident discrepancies, see below


My personal conclusion is that, very likely, the two artworks on the Kagero Monograph are the most correct and probably I will try to darken my RLM71 a bit by over-spraying it with a very diluted black.
Any suggestion on the latter from expert modellers, besides stripping off all paint and start again?

Cheers
Alberto
 
al49 said:
But I think that the light at which the pictures were taken, played a big role, look at this picture:



the contrast is very evident,
Click to expand...

The main problem with the picture is that the Stuka is a Ju 87A-1 , code 52+D24 of 4./St.G 165. The shot was taken at Schweinfurt airfield in the Spring of 1939. The plane wears three tone camo scheme on tops that consisted of RLM61/62/63 and RLM65 on undersides. Also please note the new variant of the swastica on the tail. It was introduced on January the 1st 1939.




The second picture with the Ju 87B-1, code A5+AH of 1./St.G 1 is a good example of the fact that the contrast between RLM70 and RLM71 wasn't to huge. Therefore the two profiles of Kagero are very correct in my opinion as well.
 
Hello,
what you just said confirm to myself that my knowledge of the subject is quite poor, I didn't realized that the A1 had a three tone camou.
I will try to do something to replicate the Kagero profiles.
Alberto
 
Hi,
as I mentioned above, I will try to re-paint the RLM 71 areas, because I'm convinced that will be historically more correct, but in the mean time I found an other picture that contribute a bit to increase confusion.

The contrast between color is more evident then in other pictures.
Additionally, the extended wingtips speak for a D5, but there are no records of D5 delivered to Regia Aeronautica, so it could be a D3 with wings replaced with those taken from a German D5.
Cheers
Alberto
 
From another side the plane didn't look like there were dark and light spots....





And here at all ...



but here yes...



and here almost overall one colour...







Also on the German Ju-87B the RLM71 can be found as a lighter colour. ... but in my opinion it is because of sunlight and fading of colours ( The Italian Sun works pretty good too )

 
Last edited:
OK Wojtek, the matter is getting more and more interesting!
But the fading on D3s is, IMHO, a bit unlikely because, as far as I know, they arrived in April 1943 and the photo I refer to was taken in August '43, probably not enough to discolor.
So I will mask the RLM 71 areas and repaint them: I got a bottle of Vallejo olive green that seems to be the right color, of course I will test it before doing anything.
Cheers
Alberto
 
I see. You are right. It is not too much of time. However did Italian AF receive a brand new Stukas or just were given with being already in usage?
 
Wurger said:
I see. You are right. It is not too much of time. However did Italian AF receive a brand new Stukas or just were given with being already in usage?
Click to expand...

Right, I got two books only dealing specifically with Italian Stukas.
The first one doesn't mention the origins, just says that "After April 1943, forty-nine Ju 87s were delivered, mostly D version".

The second one mention that 12 Ju 87 D3 were delivered in mid April '43, coming from the Austrian airport of Graz-Thalerhof.
Six more arrived a bit later coming from the Luftfotte 2 Flugpark of Bari Palese, southern Italy. But these were delivered to 102nd Gruppo Tuffatori while my machine belonged to 121st Gruppo Tuffatori.
So, even if transfer of airplane between groups was very common practice, the machine I'm replicating was very likely coming from Austria, one more reason to repaint the RLM 71 areas, and so I will try to do.
Alberto
 
Yep.. I have found the same info. Undoubtedly these Ju-87D weren't new ones but already used by the Luftwaffe for some time. The Gereman national markings and other symbols were overpainted ether soon before sending to Italy or in Italy just after coming. The re-painting of an entire plane wasn't done.
Anyway, the RLM71 colour might have been of lighter tonality because of the weather conditions and the fading process. I think the reason for that is that one of these matt green colours is always a yellow pigment that is very vulnerable to weather conditions. etc... But the RLM71 wasn't of a such olive ( brownish ) tonality.
 
Hi,
I finally managed to paint again the RLM 71 parts of the camouflage.
This time I used Vallejo 71015 identified as "Olive grey", here some pictures:



This color seems more correct, definitively darker then the previous one as can be seen in this little detail that, by my mistake, wasn't repainted



Next step will be to spray-on the white band and the Savoy white cross on the rudder.
Cheers
Alberto
 
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