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Biff - if it is allowed to answer, why would you rather have had the GE-110s instead of P&Ws?

Tomo,

I love the PW's! They are robust, modular (three major components) that allow for mix and swap to keep more engines available. However, I don't work on them only fly the jet. The GE motors weigh less and make much more power. An Eagle with two GE 110s is equivalent to three -220s. That's a LOT more thrust. There is a reason in my opinion that the majority of foreign sales of the newer Eagles have had GE.

Cheers,
Biff
 

Thank you
Looks like that most of the F-16s produced after early 1990s also have the 110s onboard.
 

What other cannons were available in the 1930s I have heard of the Madsen 20mm but dont know much about it.
 
For the new Supermarine's fighter, the Type 300, there were several proposals. Apart from Oerlikon FF, Hispano was also considered, so was the Vickers 25.4 mm (280 lbs, MV 3000 fps, shell of 0.551 lb), plus several 37mm cannons (200-600 lb, 1250-2300 fps, shell of 1.1-1.5 lb).
 

The Vickers 25.4mm was quite a beast THE VICKERS 25
Would have made short work of all the Luftwaffes aircraft if the pilot could hit them.
 
I have come across a couple of mentions of a prototype 0.8 inch (20mm) machine gun that was developed by a Vickers subsiduary Elswick Works in the 1920s or 30s. Google doesnt bring up any info so not sure what type of gun it was.
 
Fastmongrel,

I don't remember ever coming across a Masden 20MM cannon for aircraft. However, there was a Masden 11.35MM machine gun and a 23MM cannon.
Attached are some tables of data and sources for the Masden.

Edit: upon further review, my table does have data for a 20MM Madsen.

Shell data includes

Metric Caliber 20x120
Rim Diameter mm 28.9
Body Diameter mm 29.0
Projectile
Type/Wt gm Muzzle Velocity m/sec muzzle energy Joules
AP/154 780 46,800
HE/126-112 840-890 44,400

Eagledad
 

Attachments

  • Madsen.doc
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Perhaps the P-47 would have been better served with 4 Hispano's? in my opinion, the almost ideal fighter armament would be the 3, centrally mounted B-20 cannons on the Yak-3P
 
I was an engine technician on F-15's A's through D's, with a three year stint on F-4G Wild Weasels. As a QA inspector, I was involved with the operational testing of the GE-110 on the F-15E. Besides performance capabilities, logistics need to be considered. The GE-110 engines we tested did not have a simple side-to-side interchangeability like the P&W's did. The F100-PW-200/220 series engines were easily interchangeable between airframes (F-15 to F-16 and vise-versa), and LH to RH on the Eagle, where the GE engine required significant engine to airframe connection modifications. Also, parts supply and procurement has to be considered. Some units operate multiple airframes, Air Expeditionary for example. It reduces your logistics tail to have subsystem interchangeability amongst different weapons platforms as much as possible. Having F-16's with a different engine from your F-15's, for example, increases the size of spare parts warehousing and tracking across the entire fleet, increasing the likelihood of procurement mistakes (getting the wrong part) and shortfalls (not having adequate numbers). I will venture, that many of the foreign procurement sales, getting the GE over the P&W, have more to do with "secret handshakes," State Department and foreign government lobbying (the CEO of GE was one of Obama's "Czars"), and some sort of special interest kickbacks, over outright performance. As it is, the P&W F100 series engines are becoming legacy. The F119-PW-100 is their new shiny toy. Maintaining support for foreign sales is sometimes not as lucrative.
 

Fighterguy,

I agree completely with the logistics side of the house. Running a war and keeping the supply line moving is a VERY important part of winning. However, I was not the guy running the logistics train, but the guy who would end up fighting with a restrictive ROE and could end up in a merge with Flankers, Fulcrums, etc. And if your motors weigh 1-2K (GE) less than the PW's, then at 8-9g's that's quite a bit less weight you are moving around (or bleeding energy for / with). Also don't forget cruise mileage will be higher due to lower weights. I speak purely to the pilot's perspective, but understand the logisticians side of the equation.

I would bet that GE cracked the code along the way to make the -110 work with Eagles as well as Vipers. The only previous twin to get the GE-110's was the refitted Tomcats. The difference in it's performance was impressive (airframe was still the limiting factor), and helped with the Bombcat versions payload.

Cheers,
Biff

PS: I watch what the others countries buy engine wise for their fighters. Sometimes they mix GE & PW, sometimes they don't. Must depend on a lot of variables not seen by the general public.
 

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