Mid-air collision at Duxford- Mustang lost/ Skyraider damaged! (1 Viewer)

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I was thinking if anyone would know, it would be you, Joe. I don't recall seeing any aircraft in the civilian world that had hot seats. Not that there aren't any, I have always seen them with the charges out.

Dealing with the "aviation Nazis" (you know who I'm talking about) especially out of VNY, it's just best not to even attempt to arm any kind of hot seat. Depending on what type of plane you're talking about it will be almost impossible to install cartridges that are not expired - that's how the Feds keep some war birds on the ground.
 
A couple of things about this incident that I want to point out. My mailbox has literally exploded with discussions from multiple flying groups I associate with.

It is impossible to know what was happening in the cockpit of either airplane, so to speculate if Davies should have bailed out is unfair and wrong. Unless you're in that seat as the pilot in command, you cannot say what he should or should not have done. In an emergency, especially at low altitude, you have one shot to get it right. The Skyraider hit the Mustang about where the control lines for the tail surfaces are. Mustangs can be a handful to land in perfect conditions. Safety of the crew and the people on the ground are the most important things to consider.

Pop top breaks are impressive to watch, but are more dangerous than echelon breaks. I prefer to do echelon breaks (if I have input on the pre-flight briefing) for 2 reasons; safety and it makes better shots.

The Skyraider pilot lost sight of his lead. However or whatever happened, that is the most dangerous situation in formation flying. If you can't see your lead, you have no idea where he is and this kind of thing can happen. It only takes a second of lost focus to create a disaster.

Gents, if any of you go flying in a warbird, listen carefully and follow all the instructions of the PIC (pilot in command). If you are unsure, ASK! Make sure you know what you need to if the fit hits the shan. The last thing you want to be during an emergency is unsure. A good presentation on parachutes and egress safety is here:
http://www.dsls.usra.edu/20071023_silver.pdf
 
The Skyraider hit the Mustang about where the control lines for the tail surfaces are. Mustangs can be a handful to land in perfect conditions. Safety of the crew and the people on the ground are the most important things to consider.
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Evan from the video on the telegraph it looks like the Mustang rear wing hit the skyraider wing from behind as the sky raider tried to turn away.
 
Look closely at the video on flyingfilms. You see the Skyraider wing hit the Mustang hard enough to put substantial yaw into the Mustang. It didn't just hit the rear stabilizer and stop. It was a hard hit, hard enough to crumple the area just forward of the horizontal stabilizers, where the control cables run.
 
Okay, I did a frame by frame step through and the hit was worse than I had originally though. Here is the moment of impact. At full speed, it looks like the Skyraider wing only impacted the horizontal stab on the Mustang. It is actually further forward than that. This could have been WAY worse than it was.
 

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Okay, I did a frame by frame step through and the hit was worse than I had originally though. Here is the moment of impact. At full speed, it looks like the Skyraider wing only impacted the horizontal stab on the Mustang. It is actually further forward than that. This could have been WAY worse than it was.


Thanks for that evan....it certainly could have been worse all round, very lucky that 1 plane and 2 pilots got out of it.
 
I don't know what the actual flying weight of each aircraft was at the moment of impact, but you've got a at least 7000lb Mustang colliding with a at least 11000 lb Skyraider, it tore part of the Skyraiders wing off, there had to be massive damage wherever the wing impacted the Mustang.
 
Thor, the general answer re insurance, in the UK anyway, is yes. Of course, it depends on the policy, but the operator would have to have public liability insurance also, for air show use, and this could also cover the aircraft against damage or loss. the rest, of course, is to cover loss on the ground, that is, buildings, land, structures, lives etc.
 
The Skyraider hit the Mustang about where the control lines for the tail surfaces are.
I think you got it Eric. This is what we spoke about with my friends yesterday. Also when you look at the video, Mustang goes down right after the collision with no sign of having it under control and that´s why the pilot decided to bail out.
1 second later and he wouldn´t survive.
 
I just got a note in e-mail from someone who spoke with him. After the collision, he had no elevator control. They think the wingtip of the skyraider either cut, or jammed the control cables just behind the radiator. At between 800-100 feet AGL, you have no time to over think.
 
The Skyraider pilot lost sight of his lead. However or whatever happened, that is the most dangerous situation in formation flying. If you can't see your lead, you have no idea where he is and this kind of thing can happen. It only takes a second of lost focus to create a disaster.

BINGO!!!
 
here's the pilot's interview...he is very gracious to say the least!


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLQsJS7zQOM

and whoever finds fault with the pony jock hitting the silk has got to be crazy! they were a scant few hundred feet above the ground when the impact happened. he had to make a life saving decision in a split second. even then, he was DAMN LUCKY his chute even opened..let alone saved him with relative minor injuries. I love mustangs more than any other plane but they arent worth dying for. he made the right decision.
 
For another angle of the incident, click the link below. That was the only I looked at frame by frame. The second half of the video is in slow motion. What is amazing is how much yaw the 51 gets put into after the impact.

 
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Heartbreaking to know another warbird is lost. It makes me really nervous about MAAM's P-61 they are restoring to flight status. We already lost the B-17 Liberty Belle, a Supermarine SeaFire (but should be repairable), and now Big Beautiful Doll. And that's just this year.........

Agree with you there Thor! I'd hate to see the MAAM P-61 suffer a similar fate with how few of numbers of Black Widow there are left!
 
Just think of how many more people get to see it in it's full glory when it flys, get to hear it, touch it, maybe even take a tour through it.

I like to look at them in museums too, but sometimes it got about as much thrill to it as seeing a stuffed lion in a exhibit.
 
To the skyraider pilot's point of view, this mustang disappeared behind him and visibilitiy of the mustang should have been reacquired as the skyraider performed his break.

I don't think the skyraider reacquired the leader because the leader was still behind him from his point of view and probably remained that way until shortly before the collision where it would look like he was running the skyraider down from behind and above.

The skyraider makes a parabola while the mustang performs a sharp break and bank before relaxing back pressure on the stick and is no longer carving a turn but rather flying nearly a straight line while in a steep bank.

This is why he was no longer climbing during his break turn like the others were.

If you bank sharply without back pressure on the stick, you do not climb but instead descend.

Since the mustang traveled a much shorter path than the other two, he should have passed through the point of collision long before the skyraider which makes me believe he had an issue with the plane before the collision.
 

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