Mosquito vs The Rest

[OldSkeptic]

In the end, it had to employ the same tactics as other RAF bombers: to hide in the dark and avoid LW's SE day fighters completely.

Well except when it flew in the day ... and shot down the Luftwaffe's SE fighters, at pretty much parity.....

 

[mhuxt]

Well, not the unarmed bombers, of course...

 

[altsym]

Just referenced a book of Mine, NACHTJAGER Volume Two, by David P. Williams, BF 109's, JU-88's, HE 219's, all flying night missions until the end.

 

[davebender]

I agree. Mosquito was ideally suited to serve as path finder aircraft for RAF Bomber Command. However that doesn't mean it can replace Ju-88A and Me-210C dive bombers. Different aircraft types for different mission roles.

 

[mhuxt]

Edit: Double-post

 

[mhuxt]

Just referenced a book of Mine, NACHTJAGER Volume Two, by David P. Williams, BF 109's, JU-88's, HE 219's, all flying night missions until the end.

Don't forget the jets...

 

[Njaco]

and "To Win the Winter Sky" chronicles numerous day missions through Dec 44 - Jan 45. and on......

 

[altsym]

Don't forget the jets...

Yup. Me 262 B-1A's, and others like FW 190's, BF 110's, possibly Ta 154 A-4 Do 335 , etc.

 

[DonL]

Not any Do 335 flew ever a combat mission

 

[altsym]

Oh ok, scratch the Do 335. O/T but Didn't one get chased in France? Low level by some tempests or typhoons but couldn't catch it?

 

[mhuxt]

I believe Clostermann claimed to have chased one, but...

Apparently, one was lost on a transfer flight, IIRC in December '44. Folks have been trying for yonks to find a matching claim, might be the dreaded friendly fire.

 

[Glider]

Re the claim that the Mosquito had twice the loss rate of normal twin bombers. In blunt terms in the first missions the claim is correct. It however ignores the fact that the numbers used were small so any loss has a higher proportion. It also ignores the fact that the missions were often very high risk eg the daylight missions over Berlin many hundreds of miles behind the German controlled borders. It also ignores the long range PR missions which were going on at the same time, again many hundreds of miles behind german front lines.

I don't have access to my books but from memory the first PR squadron lost about three aircraft in the first 12 months of operations from all causes. An almost unheard of loss ratio for any front line aircraft of any type in any any airforce. The Bomber loss ratios soon fell as the RAF learnt how to operate the aircraft. The claim that they didn't operate in daylight is clearly wrong and I would love to see some evidnece to support that claim, but admit to not holding my breath on that.

 

[mhuxt]

Still like to see some numbers.

 

[wuzak]

Still like to see some numbers.

And what had half the loss rate of Mosquitoes?

Bostons?
Hudsons?
Mitchells?
Hampdens?
Wellingtons?
Blenheims?

 

[mhuxt]

Both 105 and 139 were on Blenheims before Mossies, 139 had an especially exciting time in 1940.

 

[rochie]

I find it very sad that both sides of this debate cannot acknowledge greatness when they are confronted with it.

The Germans were a truly gifted nation that produced some outstanding designs and were at the cuting edge of design.

So too the british.

The Mosquito was one of those designs that deservedly earned legendary status.

How people can denigrate tru greatness is simply very sad in my opinion.

Totaly agree
Have felt for a while an anti British has developed in these sort of threads.
Any British design is dismisssed and Lufwtwaffe development projects promoted as being able to be put into production at a moments notice.

I believe the Mosquito would have done very well for the Luftwaffe but think they might have done just as well ditching numerus projects and concentrating on the Ju88, like the Mosquito another outstanding aircraft

 

[parsifal]

I hear you, but to be totally honest I also believe a reaction has set in as well. The flip side to all this "British Bashing" is the total trashing of things German.

We all need to develop a litle respect for viewpoints that are not in alignment with our own, and act a little more maturely when it comes to respecting other peoples beliefs.

I count myself in that need to rethink.

 

[Dogwalker]

Why does this myth keep coming around.

Perhaps because the "myth" has authoritative support, and is based on some fairly simple observation. Pieces of aluminum can be directly printed by a press. Each piece of wood and / or plywood must be sawn and / or bent into the right shape by a worker. Furthermore, at the end of assembly, the aluminum should be just painted, while the plywood must first be covered with glued fabric, another work that must be done by hand (and that, thereafter, makes repairs more difficult).

Wood was increasingly used for components in other German plans (eg late 109G and 109K)

When they began to have trouble obtaining other materials, and when they realized that the wood, precisely because it's less capital-intensive, could be worked in laboratories less easily damaged by bombings. But this, in 1940, was completely out of the LW predictions.
It 'the same reason why the Regia Aeronatica, in 1939, rejected the Caproni Vizzola F5 (also) for its wooden wings, and asked for the metal construction for the Cant Z.1018, and, two and half years later, ordered 2000 units of SAI.207.

 

[stona]

de Havilland Mosquito - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Looks like technical glitches to me and fuselage fracturing from a rough taxi sounds like a serious structural problem.

Nothing that cannot be fixed but same holds true for problems experienced by early Me-210 prototypes.

There was a difference. The deletion of the slats (incidentally at the insistence of the RLM and against the wishes of Messerschmitt) on the 210 exposed serious handling problems. These were compounded by the small wing/high wing loading. They are well documented and there is no need to go over them here. Those most often mentioned were a tendency to slip into a spin at nose high attitudes and of course the unpredictable stall. The fix was not simple.

To fix the 210:

Lengthen fuselage by 950mm between wing and empennage (to eliminate yaw oscillation and tendency to ground loop on take off. Also to improve problem with spinning)

Dive brakes moved from inner wings to outer (to alleviate problems with elevator control. Elevators were also internally counterbalanced)

Fitting leading edge slats (to improve stall characteristics and cure tendency to spin)

Alter turbocharger air intake (reduce interference with engine air intake)

Other changes incorporated in the improved machines and post July '42 production, these all still designated Me 210 A-1 were.

Improvements to automatic dive recovery system and defensive armament

Armour for crew and engines factory fitted, not, as previously, applied post production.

Cockpit roll bar fitted.

All this took thousands of hours and millions of Reichmarks to do. I posted the exact figures per airframe somewhere else and can't be arsed to dig for them now!

The factory fitting of the armour may have been to maintain CoG within limits, taking into account the extended fuselage boom.

Cheers

Steve

 

[OldSkeptic]

Perhaps because the "myth" has authoritative support, and is based on some fairly simple observation. Pieces of aluminum can be directly printed by a press. Each piece of wood and / or plywood must be sawn and / or bent into the right shape by a worker. Furthermore, at the end of assembly, the aluminum should be just painted, while the plywood must first be covered with glued fabric, another work that must be done by hand (and that, thereafter, makes repairs more difficult).

Obviously you haven't seen the photos of the mass production lines..... Have a look at Mosquito, the Illustrated History. Goes into great depth how they manufactured them.

I think you have one of those pictures in your mind of a bunch of cabinet makers, clothe caps and all, carefully making a Mossie from bits of wood. Nothing like that at all.
In fact very similar to the Mustang production lines, including (independently arrived at) using the split fuselage approach, to make fitting everything internal easier.
Sub contractors made components, using specialised tools, brought together and assembled.