Mosquitos over Ploesti?
- Thread starter gjs238
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Thorlifter
Captain
I never read anything about them being used.
Glider
Captain
SAAF PR Mosquito's were used in the planning and assesments of the raid. No other PR aircraft had the range and performance for the job
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- #5
syscom3
Pacific Historian
P38's (photo-recon version) had the speed and range.
Erich
the old Sage
P-38's in the dive bombing role were used and suffered accordingly. Might be of interest to you guys to see just how many 15th AF raids were conducted on the piece of crap-ground
Glider
Captain
Then the question has to be, why didn't they? I am sure that the people who made the decisions used the best they had available. At a guess it was the altitude performance problems which could have made the difference.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
The F4 and F5 had the performance at all altitudes. I'm not saying they carried bombs, just saying they did recon work over Ploesti.
There was no Mosquito bomber squadron in the Med, though I believe one squadron in 205 Group had some which it used as Pathfinders.
So I'm in the same boat as the others - the only Mossies I can think might have been involved were SAAF recce craft, whichi to my knowledge were pure P.R. , no bombs carried.
So I'm in the same boat as the others - the only Mossies I can think might have been involved were SAAF recce craft, whichi to my knowledge were pure P.R. , no bombs carried.
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- #11
Another lost opportunity...
Seems the powers that be had the right idea with the P-38 raid(s), but Mosquitos may have been a better choice. Granted, Mosquitos were not available in that area for a variety of reasons - but then make them available.
Generally speaking, it seems Mosquitos could have performed many missions better than the aircraft actually used.
How about "swarms" of mosquitos over Germany instead of American British heavies?
Many medium bomber missions may have been better performed by Mosquito swarms as well.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
If the Mossie was carrying heavy bombs, its performance to the target would have been less than tolerable.
Jabberwocky
Staff Sergeant
Strange comment.
Performance of a Mosquito bomber version with 2,000 lbs internal ordnance (4 x 500 lbs) [or potentially 3,000 lbs (6 x 500 lbs with Avro carrier) or 4,000 lbs (a single blockbuster) for bulged belly versions] would of suffered much less than the performance of a P-38 with a 310 gallon tank and a single 1,000 lbs bomb (used on the Ploesti raid) hanging off the wings.
1944 B Mk XVI with the bulged bomb-bay was only about 10 mph faster on the return leg after dropping a 4,000 lbs cookie. The RAF credits the Mk XVI with a top speed of 408 mph at 28,500 ft while loaded with a 4,000 lb bomb, and 416 mph after it had dropped the weapon.
Glider
Captain
My comment about the Mosquito being the only PR plane with the range and performance, which was obviously incorrect was based on a book about the 1st August low level raid which demended a range of over 2000 miles. If you could point me in the right direction about other raids it would be appreciated.
I know that there were other raids which from 1944 were escorted by P51's and P38's but I am interested in the P38 dive bombing raid that was mentioned.
Any help from anyone would be welcome
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Saw this link at another board - can't think where though:
http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cgi-...ROOT=/p124201coll2&CISOPTR=73&filename=74.PDF
Havent' read the report so don't shoot the messenger, please.
http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cgi-...ROOT=/p124201coll2&CISOPTR=73&filename=74.PDF
Havent' read the report so don't shoot the messenger, please.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
Show me a source for that.
It wouldnt have flown that fast with that sized payload, let alone have the range necessary.
Erich
the old Sage
19 attacks on Ploesti by 15th AF heavies, 1 attack by P-38's
5479 A/C attacked dropped some 13469 tons of bombs, lost 223 aircraft.
according to the 15th AF chronology........more later
the last 4 attacks by heavies since the LW could not adequately defend itself nor it's territory the US 154th weather squadron put up P-38's to fly unescorted missions back and forth over the bombers giving the heavies the needed info for their attacks
5479 A/C attacked dropped some 13469 tons of bombs, lost 223 aircraft.
according to the 15th AF chronology........more later
the last 4 attacks by heavies since the LW could not adequately defend itself nor it's territory the US 154th weather squadron put up P-38's to fly unescorted missions back and forth over the bombers giving the heavies the needed info for their attacks
Glider
Captain
I don't know about the Mk XVI with a 4,000lb cookie, but the Mk IX carrying 4 x 500lb internally and 2 x 500lb externally had a max speed of around 380-390mph and a max cruising speed which is probably at least as important in this role of 345mph both at 30,000ft. Unfortunately it does not mention range.
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/lr495-b.pdf
Do you know the performance of the P38 carrying 3,000lb of bombs? I note that the range of a clean P38 seems to be around 1,150 miles. Drop tanks will add to that but external bombs reduce it significantly and I dread to think what all that extra drag did to the speed and altitude performance.
The two external 500lb bombs bombs on the Mossie caused a drop in speed of about 15mph.
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/lr495-b.pdf
Do you know the performance of the P38 carrying 3,000lb of bombs? I note that the range of a clean P38 seems to be around 1,150 miles. Drop tanks will add to that but external bombs reduce it significantly and I dread to think what all that extra drag did to the speed and altitude performance.
The two external 500lb bombs bombs on the Mossie caused a drop in speed of about 15mph.
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Glider
Captain
Thanks for the information, much appreciated.
Jabberwocky
Staff Sergeant
'Mosquito' by Sharp Bowyer credits the B Mk XVI 408 mph with 4,000 lbs at 28,500 feet and 419 mph empty on the return leg. Range with 4,000 lbs was 1,300 miles (meaning a combat radius of about 450 miles).
RAF figures for B. Mk. XVI at 'maximum continuous cruise' were:
285 mph at 0 feet
349 mph at 20,000 feet
378 mph at 30,000 feet
I'll dig up my Mosquito data sheets when I get home, and see If I've got some more info.
