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By the way the spitfire was also very vulnerable, 1 bullet in the cooler and it was over.
I beg to differ with you regarding the B-17G. It was a very reliable, stable and rugged aircraft. It took us there and brought us back time after time. It had altitude, range and respectable armament.To be honoust I find most American planes in Europe overrated. The Mustang only had 6 guns, no canons, P47 was too heavy as a fighter and lacked manouvreability, the B-17 was not fit for its task as a day precision bomber. The only reason they seemed to perform well was numbers compared to the German numbers. By the way the spitfire was also very vulnerable, 1 bullet in the cooler and it was over.
For being over rated these aircraft took took the fight to the axis and won decisively. Come up with something more than a hipshot opinion and you'll get my attentionTo be honoust I find most American planes in Europe overrated. The Mustang only had 6 guns, no canons, P47 was too heavy as a fighter and lacked manouvreability, the B-17 was not fit for its task as a day precision bomber. The only reason they seemed to perform well was numbers compared to the German numbers. By the way the spitfire was also very vulnerable, 1 bullet in the cooler and it was over.
American fighters in Europe only had to fight German fighters and 6 x 0.5 cal was sufficient, some (not by any means all) preferred the P 51B/C with only 4 guns. The P47 didn't have to be maneuverable to defend the bombers, but at high altitude its turbo engine gave it excellent performance.To be honoust I find most American planes in Europe overrated. The Mustang only had 6 guns, no canons, P47 was too heavy as a fighter and lacked manouvreability, the B-17 was not fit for its task as a day precision bomber. The only reason they seemed to perform well was numbers compared to the German numbers. By the way the spitfire was also very vulnerable, 1 bullet in the cooler and it was over.
really? at the front, over the reich the fighters escorting th US bomber streams were nearly always at a numbers disadvantage.....do some basic research please before making statements like that.To be honoust I find most American planes in Europe overrated. The Mustang only had 6 guns, no canons, P47 was too heavy as a fighter and lacked manouvreability, the B-17 was not fit for its task as a day precision bomber. The only reason they seemed to perform well was numbers compared to the German numbers. By the way the spitfire was also very vulnerable, 1 bullet in the cooler and it was over.
Sorry but you are just firing into the air for effect at this point.
For being over rated these aircraft took took the fight to the axis and won decisively. Come up with something more than a hipshot opinion and you'll get my attention
From my understanding of German I suspect Olaf von Bose (Böse) has been here before.
Böse has many meanings and uses in German, evil, bad, naughty, mischievous etc. Adler or Wurger will know better than me.Wouldn't surprise me in the least.
I love this forum, I just learned a new word, "spruiking".I wouldn't rely too much on that. My persona is based on the Germanic version of of Sir Percival, of the round table fame, made famous in German culture by Wagner's music.
I'm not a Knight, not the bulwark against evil, not suitable to retrieve the holy grail. I do like Wagner. Its my personae. this guy could be an alter boy in the local church for all I know. All I know at this point is that he is walking around on this earth with some significant lack of understanding about this particular moment in history and spruiking that to the world. To some people, the history is important.
To be honoust I find most American planes in Europe overrated. The Mustang only had 6 guns, no canons, P47 was too heavy as a fighter and lacked manouvreability, the B-17 was not fit for its task as a day precision bomber. The only reason they seemed to perform well was numbers compared to the German numbers. By the way the spitfire was also very vulnerable, 1 bullet in the cooler and it was over.
To be honoust I find most American planes in Europe overrated. The Mustang only had 6 guns, no canons, P47 was too heavy as a fighter and lacked manouvreability, the B-17 was not fit for its task as a day precision bomber. The only reason they seemed to perform well was numbers compared to the German numbers. By the way the spitfire was also very vulnerable, 1 bullet in the cooler and it was over.
Allow me to make one other comment. Until you set in the nose of a B-17 at 25000 feet in the bomber stream and witness first hand the protection provided by the P-51 pilots I really don't think it is possible to assess the performance capability of either the B-17 or P-51. Having been there I can assure you the performance of both was outstanding.To be honoust I find most American planes in Europe overrated. The Mustang only had 6 guns, no canons, P47 was too heavy as a fighter and lacked manouvreability, the B-17 was not fit for its task as a day precision bomber. The only reason they seemed to perform well was numbers compared to the German numbers. By the way the spitfire was also very vulnerable, 1 bullet in the cooler and it was over.
Don't rush off. I enjoy your companyAnd there it is. you cannot beat "being there" type experience....
We could all go home at this point.
I, for one, have learned a great deal from your posts and replies, Bill. You were there in B-17's, and made it back to the USA--Until the P=51 Mustang flew fighter cover for your Squadron, did the USAAF have any long-range fighter protection for the B-17's, as the flight paths took you deeper into Eastern Europe- especially the vital Rumanian oil fields?? Somehow, and I don't mean to be excessively judgmental, I don't think Herr Bose has the experience that you have in the air--HansieDon't rush off. I enjoy your company
I was there in 1945 and our escort aircraft were based on the Continent, I think mostly in France, so they could go with us to all target areas.I, for one, have learned a great deal from your posts and replies, Bill. You were there in B-17's, and made it back to the USA--Until the P=51 Mustang flew fighter cover for your Squadron, did the USAAF have any long-range fighter protection for the B-17's, as the flight paths took you deeper into Eastern Europe- especially the vital Rumanian oil fields?? Somehow, and I don't mean to be excessively judgmental, I don't think Herr Bose has the experience that you have in the air--Hansie