Most Overrated aircraft of WWII.....?

[billrunnels]

Sorry if I upset the apple cart on this thread, that was not my intention. You are entitled to know on what I based my opinion.

We were in the Jet Stream at bombing altitude headed for the target when a lone ME-109 puled up about 3 miles off to the right of our squadron. He assumed both our altitude and speed. Our 4 P-51 escort aircraft took up positions between our squadron and the ME-109. We remained in that posture for about 15 minutes until the ME-109 departed. Our escorts then resumed patrolling the section of the bomber stream they had been assigned.

I never thought the ME-109 was planning to attack, rather checking our altitude and speed for their gunners. However, we were not in or near a known flak zone. Who knows?

 

[parsifal]

Perhaps scared off by the 4 p-51s?

And whats this talk about upsetting the apple cart? You make the history come alive sir, please keep it up!

 

[Peter Gunn]

Two things, first, Mr. Runnels, feel free to upset this apple cart ANYTIME, because as parsifal says, you make history come alive, keep it up.

Second, if I were a lone 109 pilot and four Mustangs sidled up betwixt me and the bombers I'd be thinking hmm... "right now beer and brats with the hot Fraulein down at the Hofbrau is looking mighty good. Auf Wiedersehen boys"

 

[Hansie Bloeckmann]

I was there in 1945 and our escort aircraft were based on the Continent, I think mostly in France, so they could go with us to all target areas.

Thanks, Bill. I had a hunch that was the case, as in 1944-45 the Luftwaffe presence over the Channel and the Westernmost sectors of mainland France was diminished- to what extent, I can't say, as I was not there, as you were. Hansie

 

[billrunnels]

Two things, first, Mr. Runnels, feel free to upset this apple cart ANYTIME, because as parsifal says, you make history come alive, keep it up.

Second, if I were a lone 109 pilot and four Mustangs sidled up betwixt me and the bombers I'd be thinking hmm... "right now beer and brats with the hot Fraulein down at the Hofbrau is looking might good. Auf Wiedersehen boys"

 

[grampi]

It's truly an honor to share comments with someone who was there! Thank you for your service Sir!

 

[billrunnels]

It's truly an honor to share comments with someone who was there! Thank you for your service Sir!

Thank you it is my pleasure.

 

[Walrus]

How on earth can anyone think that the P-51 and Spitfire were overrated...
Oh of course...lacking in German wundertenickluftsmagick!

My bad

 

[soulezoo]

Allow me to make one other comment. Until you set in the nose of a B-17 at 25000 feet in the bomber stream and witness first hand the protection provided by the P-51 pilots I really don't think it is possible to assess the performance capability of either the B-17 or P-51. Having been there I can assure you the performance of both was outstanding.

You, Sir, win the internet with that post!

 

[Builder 2010]

In "Dunkirk", (spoiler alert), the hero Spitfire pilot with an engines-out situation due to no more fuel, shoots down a German Stuka. Now I know the Stuka was a ridiculously slow plane that was quite overrated due to its shock value on unprotected sites, but was this documented? And could a engine-off Spit glide that long?

 

[YF12A]

Mr. Runnels if you don't mind, a person question. I was wonderingiif you might have known or flown with my former neighbor? His name was William S. Raper/Rader? He told me he was in the 303RD and the 306TH as X/O of one and C/O of the other, but I can't remember which one. I thank you for your time and input here.

 

[billrunnels]

Mr. Runnels if you don't mind, a person question. I was wonderingiif you might have known or flown with my former neighbor? His name was William S. Raper/Rader? He told me he was in the 303RD and the 306TH as X/O of one and C/O of the other, but I can't remember which one. I thank you for your time and input here.

I don't recognize the name. He may have been there earlier than I. Thanks for asking.

 

[Fighterguy]

Well, I voted the Me-262 as most overrated. To be clear, I think it was awesome looking, a leap in technical achievement, with superior performance, but was too little-too late. Here's some things that need to be addressed in these discussions; logistical support/supply requirements, ease of manufacture, reliability, durability, combat effectiveness, ease of maintenance, ergonomics (ease of use by the operator), and other "soft" statistics.
The Me-262's effectiveness in the air has become the primary focus. But that's just one particular aspect, it had a miserable record in every other regard. It required exceptionally skilled and experienced pilots to operate it. Something the Luftwaffe was in very short supply of. The Junkers Jumo 004 turbojet engine was highly unreliable, requiring intensive maintenance and replacement at extremely short intervals. As with many of the German weapons programs (V-1 & 2, Tiger I, and Panther), it caused a severe drain on scarce resources, was fielded too quickly while having unresolved technical issues, and was harder to produce than already established/proven platforms.

 

[pbehn]

In "Dunkirk", (spoiler alert), the hero Spitfire pilot with an engines-out situation due to no more fuel, shoots down a German Stuka. Now I know the Stuka was a ridiculously slow plane that was quite overrated due to its shock value on unprotected sites, but was this documented? And could a engine-off Spit glide that long?

I havnt seen the movie, but similarly unlikely attacks did happen. James Brindley Nicholson won a V.C. in the BoB for attacking a Bf110 while his Hurricane was on fire. Bob Doe continued an attack on a flight of Bf 109s after his engine cut out while FS Ray Holmes rammed a LW bomber over London.

As for shooting down a Stuka with a dead engine, I suppose it depends how fast and how high you are, I believe it was possible to get across the channel at its narrowest with an engine failure at 20,000ft.

 

[BiffF15]

I think Robin Olds first kill was in a P-38 with both engines windmilling due to fuel starvation.

A kill is a kill.

Cheers,
Biff

 

[pbehn]

How on earth can anyone think that the P-51 and Spitfire were overrated...
Oh of course...lacking in German wundertenickluftsmagick!

My bad

Not really, there are some young people who think that the Spitfire was the only RAF fighter and reigned supreme throughout the war. Many modern news articles consider "Battle of Britain pilots", WW2 RAF fighter pilots and Spitfire pilots to be all the same thing. In that sense the Spitfire is over rated.

I believe it is a similar thing in USA but I am in no place to judge. The hard yards against the LW were done by the P51B/C but the P51D is much prettier, this is almost exactly the same as the Hurricane/Spitfire in the Battle of France and BoB. The poor old "bird cage Jug" was consigned to a darkened room of history until photos with a bubble canopy, polished alloy and nose art could be produced.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I will admit it. I voted the P-51 overrated.

I think it is one of the greatest aircraft built, but it's overrated because people put it on such a pedistal that they forget about all the other aircraft contributions.

You would think the P-51 was the only fighter, transport, bomber, recon, torpedo bombing, dive bomber helicopter to serve in WW2. It single handedly killed Hitler, and dropped the bomb on Hiroshima...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Oh and it won the BoB with Ben Affleck flying it, right after he captured the first Enigma machine for the US (which sealed the fate for Germany, since the Brits were just spectators).

Too bad we did not already have it in 1917. It would have made our job to save the French and British in WW1 much easier.

At least that's what the average comment section on the internet is saying...

 

[pbehn]

Oh and it won the BoB with Ben Affleck flying it, right after he captured the first Enigma machine for the US (which sealed the fate for Germany, since the Brits were just spectators).

Too bad we did not already have it in 1917. It would have made our job to save the French and British in WW1 much easier.

At least that's what the average comment section on the internet is saying...

You know, as I do, deep down, the internet is a force for good. So many billionaires cannot be wrong.

 

[billrunnels]

I will admit it. I voted the P-51 overrated.

I think it is one of the greatest aircraft built, but it's overrated because people put it on such a pedistal that they forget about all the other aircraft contributions.

You would think the P-51 was the only fighter, transport, bomber, recon, torpedo bombing, dive bomber helicopter to serve in WW2. It single handedly killed Hitler, and dropped the bomb on Hiroshima...

Are you suggesting it didn't do all those things?