Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
Good post Dave.
How can this respect be earned in Iraq? Does respect equal peace?
I just don't know
John
Muslim tolerance: Allied graves destroyed in Libya!
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Good post Dave.
How can this respect be earned in Iraq? Does respect equal peace?
I just don't know
John
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
I have a deep respect for the people that put themselves in harm's way to protect Freedom, both past and present. I have another kind of feeling for those who fought on the Axis side; there were alot of good people following a wrong ideal, but we should remember that it truly would have been "A new Dark Age" had they succeded. Mr. Churchill's comments on the passing of Rommel pretty well sum it up from my stand point also.
Just an observation because I like to view things from all angles, and, I am above all, a keen student of the human condition.
I knew a man that was with the American forces in North Africa. He told me of an incident whereby a certain "Indigenous person" had made a deal with him and his buddy to trade some jerry cans of fuel for a couple bottles of local hooch. They made the trade then waited till the local had moved off some distance before stitching him with .30 cal ball and tracer. He laughed as he described the man flopping around, burning. Similar actions can be found from the Axis side, and indeed, all conflicts.
Now, I am not suggesting that incidents excuse each other, far from it; I am one of those that feel that it is time for mankind to abandon the tribal thinking and bronze-age beliefs that foster actions based on emotions rather than reason.
Tit for tat is why there is the "saber rattling" going on, not just in the Middle east, but Pakistan and India, China and Taiwan...the list goes on and has forever.
Except now the stakes are higher. It isn't sabers anymore.
We are on the brink of either extinction, by way of ignorance, or advancement, by way of knowledge.
It is entirely up to us, waiting around for the intercession of gods or benevolent space brothers ain't gonna cut it folks!
All things being equal, I don't know why our blowing up this planet bothers me so much. (other than it's where I keep my stuff)
Dead is still dead
Just an observation because I like to view things from all angles, and, I am above all, a keen student of the human condition.
I knew a man that was with the American forces in North Africa. He told me of an incident whereby a certain "Indigenous person" had made a deal with him and his buddy to trade some jerry cans of fuel for a couple bottles of local hooch. They made the trade then waited till the local had moved off some distance before stitching him with .30 cal ball and tracer. He laughed as he described the man flopping around, burning. Similar actions can be found from the Axis side, and indeed, all conflicts.
Now, I am not suggesting that incidents excuse each other, far from it; I am one of those that feel that it is time for mankind to abandon the tribal thinking and bronze-age beliefs that foster actions based on emotions rather than reason.
Tit for tat is why there is the "saber rattling" going on, not just in the Middle east, but Pakistan and India, China and Taiwan...the list goes on and has forever.
Except now the stakes are higher. It isn't sabers anymore.
We are on the brink of either extinction, by way of ignorance, or advancement, by way of knowledge.
It is entirely up to us, waiting around for the intercession of gods or benevolent space brothers ain't gonna cut it folks!
All things being equal, I don't know why our blowing up this planet bothers me so much. (other than it's where I keep my stuff)
Dead is still dead
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Erich
the old Sage
John who cares what you write down as to getting booted off the forums, why the fear ? some of us including the mods have been pretty clear in our feelings some of us have served overseas in the name of our and other countrymen, suffered got wounded seen destruction and lost brothers in arms. In essence and I will be blunt those in the Mideast who we try to defend in their name just don't give a sh+t about us............
mikewint
Captain
Meatloaf, war is inhuman and there is no way to sanitize it. It has been stated many time in many other threads, in any war, the soldiers on both sides dehumanize the enemy thus whatever you do to them is OK as they are really not human like you and yours. I think that this bit of mental gymnastics transends any christian/muslin differences in thought processes. However, here we are talking about desecration of the dead who are no threat to anyone, their war, whatever it was is over. No one has said it any better than Chris, dead soldiers of any nation/cause deserve to be left in peace
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
Granted and agreed with, I was reflecting on the world as a whole.
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
Erich, everyone comes to hate their benefactor sooner or later.
America is the most generous country on earth and that is the main reason why Bin Laden and co have focused on you.
John
oldcrowcv63
Tech Sergeant
I have to admit my first 'ungracious' thought was, "It's too bad Gaddafi's already dead, it would be simple justice to give them back to the SOB they deserve. I was especially angered that the graves they were defacing were of the older brothers-in-arms of those they begged for salvation mere months earlier. Memory, thy term is indeed short. The rest is unprintable.
While that can be noted remember who those countries were trying to align themselves with Hitler himself and the Nazi party the Muslim Brotherhood came about in that time if I am not mistaken?So they have always hated the West and Christans and all I can say is that the whole region could use a F@#k'in as far as I am concerned with support to Isarel only screw the rest.
An addendum to the above post about the Brotherhood while it comes from a Jewish/American relation site last I heard we were not killing Muslin/Islam people of faith in the US like what is occurring in Med.region now in Egypt.
The Muslim Brotherhood began as a social and religious organization in Egypt whose members regarded Islam as a way of life. Many Syrian supporters founded their own branches in Syria, one of which was the Aleppo branch, founded in 1935. The Aleppo branch eventually became the Syrian headquarters of the Brotherhood. The Brotherhood expanded its political involvement as the Party of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hizb al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun.
The Brotherhood's founder, al-Banna, was a devout admirer of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime. During the 1930s, the Brotherhood became more political in nature and an officially political group in 1939. Over the years, the organization developed an apparatus through which to provide military training to its followers and to engage in political terrorism against Egyptian Coptic Christians and government officials.
In 1942, during World War II, Hassan al-Banna set up more Brotherhood branches in Transjordan and Palestine. The headquarters of the Syrian branch moved to Damascus in 1944. After World War II, Egyptian members took violent action against King Farouk's government. When the organization was banned in Egypt, hundreds moved to Transjordan. Many also participated in the Arab-Israeli War of 1948-1949.
The Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood initially supported Gamal Abd an-Nasser's secular government and cooperated with it, but resisted left-wing influences. A Muslim Brother assassinated Egyptian Prime Minister Mahmud Fahmi Nokrashi on December 28, 1948. The Brotherhood was banned, and al-Banna himself was killed by government agents in Cairo in February 1949.
Muslim Brother Abdul Munim Abdul Rauf allegedly tried to kill Nasser on October 26, 1954. The Brotherhood was outlawed again and more than 4,000 of its members were imprisoned, including Sayyid Qutb, who later became the most influential intellectual of the group. He wrote influential books while in prison. More members moved to Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Syria
The Muslim Brotherhood
Berlin-1942
Amin Al Husseini spends WWII by Hitler's side.In charge of the Brotherhood
Next pic:Amin Al Husseini inspecting his Nazi troops, the Hanzar. Here, he is showing a young Muslim recruit how to use his rifle. Amin Al Husseini himself had been an officer in the defeated Ottoman Islamic Empire of World War I.
The Muslim Brotherhood began as a social and religious organization in Egypt whose members regarded Islam as a way of life. Many Syrian supporters founded their own branches in Syria, one of which was the Aleppo branch, founded in 1935. The Aleppo branch eventually became the Syrian headquarters of the Brotherhood. The Brotherhood expanded its political involvement as the Party of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hizb al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun.
The Brotherhood's founder, al-Banna, was a devout admirer of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime. During the 1930s, the Brotherhood became more political in nature and an officially political group in 1939. Over the years, the organization developed an apparatus through which to provide military training to its followers and to engage in political terrorism against Egyptian Coptic Christians and government officials.
In 1942, during World War II, Hassan al-Banna set up more Brotherhood branches in Transjordan and Palestine. The headquarters of the Syrian branch moved to Damascus in 1944. After World War II, Egyptian members took violent action against King Farouk's government. When the organization was banned in Egypt, hundreds moved to Transjordan. Many also participated in the Arab-Israeli War of 1948-1949.
The Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood initially supported Gamal Abd an-Nasser's secular government and cooperated with it, but resisted left-wing influences. A Muslim Brother assassinated Egyptian Prime Minister Mahmud Fahmi Nokrashi on December 28, 1948. The Brotherhood was banned, and al-Banna himself was killed by government agents in Cairo in February 1949.
Muslim Brother Abdul Munim Abdul Rauf allegedly tried to kill Nasser on October 26, 1954. The Brotherhood was outlawed again and more than 4,000 of its members were imprisoned, including Sayyid Qutb, who later became the most influential intellectual of the group. He wrote influential books while in prison. More members moved to Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Syria
The Muslim Brotherhood
Berlin-1942
Amin Al Husseini spends WWII by Hitler's side.In charge of the Brotherhood
Next pic:Amin Al Husseini inspecting his Nazi troops, the Hanzar. Here, he is showing a young Muslim recruit how to use his rifle. Amin Al Husseini himself had been an officer in the defeated Ottoman Islamic Empire of World War I.
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pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
Please lets not forget those other terrorists of the period the Hagganah and the Irgun . It sure would be nice if a fair solution to the Palestinian problem could be found
oldcrowcv63
Tech Sergeant
Your balanced sentiment is laudable... Unfortunately, we don't live in a fair world. The world devolves more quickly to us and them and ours and theirs with every violent desecratory act. As the virulence of the rhetoric increases, aggravated by the heinous acts depicted here and others that produce bloody retaliation, opportunities for a rationale solution evaporate. Mistakes were made and continue to be made with no end in sight. The possibility for an equatible resolution seems to me to progressively decrease with time.
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Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
On the money there Mal.
There is no end to the lunatic cycle beacuse there is no real desire to stop.
Look at the IRA in NI for example, hate handed from father to son and funded and supported from abroad.
John
oldcrowcv63
Tech Sergeant
Too true, too true. Neither side will be truly happy until we are all dragged down into a common grave ... To quote my favorite cartoonist, Walt Kelly, whom I had the good fortune to meet before his death,
"We have met the enemy and he is us...."
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