michaelmaltby
Colonel
) for Osama, I offer you this.MM
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Osama Bin Laden is Dead!!!
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) for Osama, I offer you this.MM
parsifal
Colonel
Oh jeez, for the umpteenth time, I am not interested in getting justice for OBL.....but I am interested in making sure our reputations are not tarnished so that what we do can be used against us by our enemies. If OBL was killed by execution, that represents a gold mine for our enemies, and OBL is just as much of a nuisance as he was alive. the loons that support him can now claim he has died a martyrs death. We risk making him a hero in their eyes, and a source of inspiration for all those willing to die for Allah. And I know that some of you people think that might bhe a good thing, but already the US is showing signs of weakening in its resolve, and looking for a way out. Unless we find a way to demoralize our enemies we face a war that could go onn for hundreds of years, and cost hundreds of millions of lives. We have to stop thinking so anally and start thinking about how to win this war.
You see, meting vengeance on this loser doesnt bring one of our dead back from the grave, and IMO does nothing to contribute to victory. It has the potential to needlessly cost more lives of our soldiers and innocent Muslims caught in the middle. And all so we can feel good about getting vengeance. Thats a poor strategy, a dumb way of thinking and only contributes to our defeat. I cant help thinking that OBL has trumped us yet again....he probably knew that something like this was going to happen in the end, and planned to maximise the benefites for his cause by painting us westerners into a corner....it certainly looks that way at this point.
Vengeance is not what this should be about. Its about winning for christs sake. We dont win by perpetuating the OBL mythology. We win by deconstructing it. A far better outcome in terms of winning this grubby little war would have been to get OBL to betrtay his own cause in front of the cameras....to plead for his life and show him up as the coward he is. If we had managed to do this his lies would be exposed and we win with a lay down mezzaire.
If he doesnt buckle like that he is going to come out swinging, spitting fire and brimstone, for all the fencesitters and do gooders in our own countries to see. Second prize, but still a good one, would be to watch Bin Laden lay down his antiwestern, murderous manifesto for the French (and others) to see for themselves, just what it was they decided to do nothing about. We dont defuse the hard core jihadists, but we pull the moderates away from them. Still a win.
OBL has been more a symbol than a front line commander for quite a while, so his ability to effectively lead from gaol would not represent his greatest threat to us. His greatest threat is that he will continue to be some sort of Messianic symbol to the jihadists, with all the suffering that goes with that.
If these reports about execution are correct, with no mitigating circumstances, then my greatest fear is that Binm Ladens supporters will, if anything be strengthened by his death, and the US even more isolated and weakened and divided than it already is. There will, in the end be less support for the US and the west, and a greater falling away from the coaltion because the US will be seen as a brutish murderous society prepared to kill anybody, and step on any country that gets in its way....thats not how I perceive it, but thats how the enemies of the US are going to exploit this.
You see, meting vengeance on this loser doesnt bring one of our dead back from the grave, and IMO does nothing to contribute to victory. It has the potential to needlessly cost more lives of our soldiers and innocent Muslims caught in the middle. And all so we can feel good about getting vengeance. Thats a poor strategy, a dumb way of thinking and only contributes to our defeat. I cant help thinking that OBL has trumped us yet again....he probably knew that something like this was going to happen in the end, and planned to maximise the benefites for his cause by painting us westerners into a corner....it certainly looks that way at this point.
Vengeance is not what this should be about. Its about winning for christs sake. We dont win by perpetuating the OBL mythology. We win by deconstructing it. A far better outcome in terms of winning this grubby little war would have been to get OBL to betrtay his own cause in front of the cameras....to plead for his life and show him up as the coward he is. If we had managed to do this his lies would be exposed and we win with a lay down mezzaire.
If he doesnt buckle like that he is going to come out swinging, spitting fire and brimstone, for all the fencesitters and do gooders in our own countries to see. Second prize, but still a good one, would be to watch Bin Laden lay down his antiwestern, murderous manifesto for the French (and others) to see for themselves, just what it was they decided to do nothing about. We dont defuse the hard core jihadists, but we pull the moderates away from them. Still a win.
OBL has been more a symbol than a front line commander for quite a while, so his ability to effectively lead from gaol would not represent his greatest threat to us. His greatest threat is that he will continue to be some sort of Messianic symbol to the jihadists, with all the suffering that goes with that.
If these reports about execution are correct, with no mitigating circumstances, then my greatest fear is that Binm Ladens supporters will, if anything be strengthened by his death, and the US even more isolated and weakened and divided than it already is. There will, in the end be less support for the US and the west, and a greater falling away from the coaltion because the US will be seen as a brutish murderous society prepared to kill anybody, and step on any country that gets in its way....thats not how I perceive it, but thats how the enemies of the US are going to exploit this.
Erich
the old Sage
classic Mike !
Parsif damn man let it go will ya. the SOB is dead, gone it is over with him. you are sounding paranoic, what has happened has happened whomever you can believe, we do not have the full story and may never have it. It is a done deal, now we must pursue the rest of the clan and those like it that wish to promote evil in the world with their hate and terminate it like a bad sore in however means we do this.
ok bud breathe in and breathe out. time for a bike ride ...........
Parsif damn man let it go will ya. the SOB is dead, gone it is over with him. you are sounding paranoic, what has happened has happened whomever you can believe, we do not have the full story and may never have it. It is a done deal, now we must pursue the rest of the clan and those like it that wish to promote evil in the world with their hate and terminate it like a bad sore in however means we do this.
ok bud breathe in and breathe out. time for a bike ride ...........
Florence
Senior Airman
B-17engineer
Colonel
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"... The successor to the Nuremberg tribunals is the ICC."
Utter. Nonsense. Parsifal. With all due respect, Nuremberg was envisioned and conducted by victorious allies who had made enormous investments in both blood and treasure to defeat (Nazi) Germany for the second time in 3 decades.
The ICC is a UN-sanctioned tribunal that currently has an investment in "justice" -- UN-style, justice. Ask the Israelis about UN justice, Parsifal. With Libya chairing the human-rights council, and Saudi Arabia the women's rights council (I exaggerate, but not by much) I wouldn't trust the UN to fairly judge a spelling bee, let alone the fate of my country, my religion or my culture . Do you ....?
As the world's peace-maker (until recently), the US can hardly be blamed for being highly "skeptical" of the ICC. Right-minded people world-wide are rejecting the UN in droves, and the EU is failing -- another example of the weak and the profligate trumping the hard working and the disciplined. Heavenly Father, spare us from the vision of "world governance" and all the rubbish and illusion that goes with it. I pray.
MM
Utter. Nonsense. Parsifal.
With all due respect, Nuremberg was envisioned and conducted by victorious allies who had made enormous investments in both blood and treasure to defeat (Nazi) Germany for the second time in 3 decades.The ICC is a UN-sanctioned tribunal that currently has an investment in "justice" -- UN-style, justice. Ask the Israelis about UN justice, Parsifal. With Libya chairing the human-rights council, and Saudi Arabia the women's rights council (I exaggerate, but not by much
) I wouldn't trust the UN to fairly judge a spelling bee, let alone the fate of my country, my religion or my culture . Do you ....?As the world's peace-maker (until recently), the US can hardly be blamed for being highly "skeptical" of the ICC. Right-minded people world-wide are rejecting the UN in droves, and the EU is failing -- another example of the weak and the profligate trumping the hard working and the disciplined. Heavenly Father, spare us from the vision of "world governance" and all the rubbish and illusion that goes with it. I pray.
MM
the UN use to be a noble organization, now there just a bunch of corrupt bastards.
I'm a firm believer that Canada the US should get out of the UN.
anyways, as was already said, a world court would NOT have executed OBL.
for FLYBOY, I read that OBL was shot in the chest first, then later after some "fun"
with him, the head. I'm sure he suffered... which is good.
I'm a firm believer that Canada the US should get out of the UN.
anyways, as was already said, a world court would NOT have executed OBL.
for FLYBOY, I read that OBL was shot in the chest first, then later after some "fun"
with him, the head. I'm sure he suffered... which is good.
parsifal
Colonel
Hi MM
Im going to follow Erichs sound advice and leave the Bin Laden discussions for a while. That kind of limits what I can talk about in this thread, so please take note I will only respond to issues not related to OBL.
With regard to your comments regarding the US role as international peacekeeper, couldnt agree more. With regard to your comments that UN has been infiltrated and corrupted by persons with malevolent intent, agree substantially with that. Just have s look at the anti-jewish resolutions since 1948……and that gives you a very good idea of what is wrong with the UN
With regard to the ICC, you need to be aware that it is not part of the UN. It was formed by multilateral treaty, the Rome Statute, and is not so badly influenced by the third world, but does tend to be eurocentric, which is why I suspect you are so opposed to it, given it has strong connections to france and britain. It has certain rights and privileges granted to it by the UN security Council, but is not directly answerable to the UN. The UN can refer cases to it for consideration, which is about all it can do.
In fact you mentioned the Saudis, and the Libyans, but neither of these countries are member states, neither have they even signed the MOU underpinning its existence. Most of the tin pot middle eastern nations have not signed. Not sure about Israel, but I will check later. Australia is a full signatory and recently had three members of the ADF acquiitted for alleged crimes. Neither is China, or Burma, or Egypt. I guess you believe these nations represent all that is good and high minded in the world, please, go ahead and argue their case
114 nations have signed and ratified the statute. A large number of states, including the US and Russia have signed , but not ratified. Not sure what that means, but I don't think they can use the facilities of the ICC for prosecutions, or judicial review.
The court can generally exercise jurisdiction only in cases where the accused is a national of a state party, the alleged crime took place on the territory of a state party, or a situation is referred to the court by the United Nations Security Council. It is designed to complement existing national judicial systems: it can exercise its jurisdiction only when national courts are unwilling or unable to investigate or prosecute such crimes. Primary responsibility to investigate and punish crimes is therefore left to individual states
So as you can see, the ICC ability to investigate and prosecute is restricted. There really isnt any legal body able to deal with International crimes other than this body, which is why I say it is a successor to the Nuremberg trials, though the real links to this body are more moral rather than real. The ICC has severely restricted jurisdiction, I have to point out, so comparing it to Nuremberg is somewhat ambitios, i admit. In order for terrorists like Bin laden to have been placed before that court, substantial changes to its make up would have been required, but have never been attempted
For the record, also, Nuremberg was a product of the United Nations. The UN was set up under the Atlantic Charter in 1941, and the decision to set up this tribunal was made under the auspices of this body. I am unsure about the war crimes tribunals set up for the Japanese, as they were immediately answerable to the occupation authority set up by the US under Mac in 1945, and by the time they began, the cold war was beginning to have effect.
The problems with the UN arose with the rise of the non-aligned nations, and the rabid anti-semitism that dominates many middle eastern nations. They hate us, and want to use any means to discredit us embarrass us, or stifle us. Whilst the temptation is to ignore the UN, this really is not a productive option. The UN is a product of US and British diplomacy, and great things were expected of it. To abandon it as a concept carries with it a huge price in international standing that the US, and us, are really not willing to pay. Its akin to japan and italy walking out of the league Of nations in the 1930s. The US, and any other western nation could immediately be labelled a pariah and racist state. So what do you do in that situation…..we cant chew it, spit it out or swallow it, the best we can do is limp along and try and lift these nonaligned states that are causing the problems up to a better level of maturity, so that better decision come out of the organization
Im going to follow Erichs sound advice and leave the Bin Laden discussions for a while. That kind of limits what I can talk about in this thread, so please take note I will only respond to issues not related to OBL.
With regard to your comments regarding the US role as international peacekeeper, couldnt agree more. With regard to your comments that UN has been infiltrated and corrupted by persons with malevolent intent, agree substantially with that. Just have s look at the anti-jewish resolutions since 1948……and that gives you a very good idea of what is wrong with the UN
With regard to the ICC, you need to be aware that it is not part of the UN. It was formed by multilateral treaty, the Rome Statute, and is not so badly influenced by the third world, but does tend to be eurocentric, which is why I suspect you are so opposed to it, given it has strong connections to france and britain. It has certain rights and privileges granted to it by the UN security Council, but is not directly answerable to the UN. The UN can refer cases to it for consideration, which is about all it can do.
In fact you mentioned the Saudis, and the Libyans, but neither of these countries are member states, neither have they even signed the MOU underpinning its existence. Most of the tin pot middle eastern nations have not signed. Not sure about Israel, but I will check later. Australia is a full signatory and recently had three members of the ADF acquiitted for alleged crimes. Neither is China, or Burma, or Egypt. I guess you believe these nations represent all that is good and high minded in the world, please, go ahead and argue their case
114 nations have signed and ratified the statute. A large number of states, including the US and Russia have signed , but not ratified. Not sure what that means, but I don't think they can use the facilities of the ICC for prosecutions, or judicial review.
The court can generally exercise jurisdiction only in cases where the accused is a national of a state party, the alleged crime took place on the territory of a state party, or a situation is referred to the court by the United Nations Security Council. It is designed to complement existing national judicial systems: it can exercise its jurisdiction only when national courts are unwilling or unable to investigate or prosecute such crimes. Primary responsibility to investigate and punish crimes is therefore left to individual states
So as you can see, the ICC ability to investigate and prosecute is restricted. There really isnt any legal body able to deal with International crimes other than this body, which is why I say it is a successor to the Nuremberg trials, though the real links to this body are more moral rather than real. The ICC has severely restricted jurisdiction, I have to point out, so comparing it to Nuremberg is somewhat ambitios, i admit. In order for terrorists like Bin laden to have been placed before that court, substantial changes to its make up would have been required, but have never been attempted
For the record, also, Nuremberg was a product of the United Nations. The UN was set up under the Atlantic Charter in 1941, and the decision to set up this tribunal was made under the auspices of this body. I am unsure about the war crimes tribunals set up for the Japanese, as they were immediately answerable to the occupation authority set up by the US under Mac in 1945, and by the time they began, the cold war was beginning to have effect.
The problems with the UN arose with the rise of the non-aligned nations, and the rabid anti-semitism that dominates many middle eastern nations. They hate us, and want to use any means to discredit us embarrass us, or stifle us. Whilst the temptation is to ignore the UN, this really is not a productive option. The UN is a product of US and British diplomacy, and great things were expected of it. To abandon it as a concept carries with it a huge price in international standing that the US, and us, are really not willing to pay. Its akin to japan and italy walking out of the league Of nations in the 1930s. The US, and any other western nation could immediately be labelled a pariah and racist state. So what do you do in that situation…..we cant chew it, spit it out or swallow it, the best we can do is limp along and try and lift these nonaligned states that are causing the problems up to a better level of maturity, so that better decision come out of the organization
parsifal
Colonel
It also seems a poor process to pass judgement on an organization on the basis of some imaginary association with the UN, and to say its ineffective or weak, when it has only just begun operation. The court only began prosecutions in 2006, and state investigations in 2008. Its immediate tribunal predecessors, the tribunal into the war criminals of the former yugoslavia and the criminals of Rwnada, have tried and convicted a number of people, but these were temporary tribunals with limited jurisdictions. The ICC was set up for criminals unable to be tried by states jurisdictions for specific crimes.
According to the ICC website, the following progress has been made with respect to the cases on its books:
"Pursuant to the Rome Statute, the Prosecutor can initiate an investigation on the basis of a referral from any State Party or from the United Nations Security Council. In addition, the Prosecutor can initiate investigations proprio motu on the basis of information on crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court received from individuals or organisations ("communications").
To date, three States Parties to the Rome Statute – Uganda, the Democratic Republic of the Congo and the Central African Republic – have referred situations occurring on their territories to the Court. In addition, the Security Council has referred the situation in Darfur, Sudan – a non‐State Party. After a thorough analysis of available information, the Prosecutor has opened and is conducting investigations in all of the above-mentioned situations.
On 31 March 2010, Pre-Trial Chamber II granted the Prosecution authorisation to open an investigation proprio motu in the situation of Kenya.
In the situation in Uganda, the case The Prosecutor v. Joseph Kony, Vincent Otti, Okot Odhiambo and Dominic Ongwen is currently being heard before Pre-Trial Chamber II. In this case, five warrants of arrest have been issued against [the] five top members of the Lords Resistance Army (LRA).
Following the confirmation of the death of Mr Lukwiya, the proceedings against him have been terminated. The four remaining suspects are still at large.
In the situation in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, four cases are being heard before the relevant Chambers: The Prosecutor v. Thomas Lubanga Dyilo; The Prosecutor v. Bosco Ntaganda; The Prosecutor v. Germain Katanga and Mathieu Ngudjolo Chui and The Prosecutor v. Callixte Mbarushimana.
Two cases are at the pre-trial stage. The proceedings against Thomas Lubanga Dyilo as well as Katanga and Ngudjolo Chui are at the trial stage.
The accused Thomas Lubanga Dyilo, Germain Katanga, Mathieu Ngudjolo Chui, and Callixte Mbarushimana are currently in the custody of the ICC. The suspect Bosco Ntaganda remains at large.
In the situation in Darfur, Sudan, four cases are being heard before Pre-Trial Chamber I: The Prosecutor v. Ahmad Muhammad Harun ("Ahmad Harun") and Ali Muhammad Ali Abd-Al-Rahman ("Ali Kushayb"); The Prosecutor v. Omar Hassan Ahmad Al Bashir; The Prosecutor v. Bahar Idriss Abu Garda and The Prosecutor v. Abdallah Banda Abakaer Nourain and Saleh Mohammed Jerbo Jamus
The suspect Bahr Idriss Abu Garda appeared voluntarily for the first time before Pre-Trial Chamber I on 18 May 2009. He is not in custody. The three other suspects remain at large.
In the situation in the Central African Republic, the case The Prosecutor v. Jean-Pierre Bemba Gombo is at the trial stage.
On 6 November, 2009, the Presidency of the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued a decision assigning the situation in the Republic of Kenya to Pre-Trial Chamber II. Pre-Trial Chamber II granted the Prosecutor, on 31 March 2010, authorisation to open an investigation in the situation of Kenya.
On 8 March 2011, Pre-Trial Chamber II, by Majority, issued its decisions on the applications submitted by the Prosecutor to summon William Samoei Ruto, Henry Kiprono Kosgey, Joshua Arap Sang , as well as Francis Kirimi Muthaura, Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta and Mohammed Hussein Ali to appear before the Court on 7 April 2011.
On 26 February, the United Nations Security Council decided unanimously to refer the situation in Libyan Arab Jamahiriya since 15 February 2011 to the ICC Prosecutor. On 3 March 2011 the ICC Prosecutor announced his decision to the open an investigation in the situation in Libya, which is assigned by the Presidency to Pre-Trial Chamber I"
The individuals being indicted are not your average domestic criminal. The trials are ongoing, so it would be valid to say the processes of justice are slow moving, but to say that it is inneffective because it does not prosecute people is clearly spreading misinformation. To date only one person has been acquitted, and the proceedings against another discontinued because he died. A number of these individuals are being held in custody....effectively gaoled....whilst their trials are completed. The firsat trial scheduled for completion is the trtrial against Mr Kony, due in mid August of this year.
And where is the US in all of this. After signing the MOU to the treaty formation, which has the legal effect of making them observe the spirit of the treaty charter and not undertake activities that might be considered contrary to its intent, the US decided this was not for them, and withdrew even that tentative signature. They were joined, understandably, by Israel and remain the only two nations which I would classify as "progressive" as not having at least signed the treaty. Nearly all the other progressive western nations have both signed and ratified the treaty, even Russia has signed it at least. By rejecting the treaty in its entirety, the US and Israel are rubbing shoulders with such luminary nations as North Korea, Egypt, Yemen, China, India, Saudi Arabia, Libya and Syria. These other nations dont want to sign I think because they dont want to be investigated, and dont want any of their "states persons" tried under international law. One should draw ones own conclusions as to why the US has rejected this fledgling attampt at ongoing legal enforcement. It may have something to do with who is running it. I'll give you a hint.....Its a continent starting with "E" and ending with "e"
According to the ICC website, the following progress has been made with respect to the cases on its books:
"Pursuant to the Rome Statute, the Prosecutor can initiate an investigation on the basis of a referral from any State Party or from the United Nations Security Council. In addition, the Prosecutor can initiate investigations proprio motu on the basis of information on crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court received from individuals or organisations ("communications").
To date, three States Parties to the Rome Statute – Uganda, the Democratic Republic of the Congo and the Central African Republic – have referred situations occurring on their territories to the Court. In addition, the Security Council has referred the situation in Darfur, Sudan – a non‐State Party. After a thorough analysis of available information, the Prosecutor has opened and is conducting investigations in all of the above-mentioned situations.
On 31 March 2010, Pre-Trial Chamber II granted the Prosecution authorisation to open an investigation proprio motu in the situation of Kenya.
In the situation in Uganda, the case The Prosecutor v. Joseph Kony, Vincent Otti, Okot Odhiambo and Dominic Ongwen is currently being heard before Pre-Trial Chamber II. In this case, five warrants of arrest have been issued against [the] five top members of the Lords Resistance Army (LRA).
Following the confirmation of the death of Mr Lukwiya, the proceedings against him have been terminated. The four remaining suspects are still at large.
In the situation in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, four cases are being heard before the relevant Chambers: The Prosecutor v. Thomas Lubanga Dyilo; The Prosecutor v. Bosco Ntaganda; The Prosecutor v. Germain Katanga and Mathieu Ngudjolo Chui and The Prosecutor v. Callixte Mbarushimana.
Two cases are at the pre-trial stage. The proceedings against Thomas Lubanga Dyilo as well as Katanga and Ngudjolo Chui are at the trial stage.
The accused Thomas Lubanga Dyilo, Germain Katanga, Mathieu Ngudjolo Chui, and Callixte Mbarushimana are currently in the custody of the ICC. The suspect Bosco Ntaganda remains at large.
In the situation in Darfur, Sudan, four cases are being heard before Pre-Trial Chamber I: The Prosecutor v. Ahmad Muhammad Harun ("Ahmad Harun") and Ali Muhammad Ali Abd-Al-Rahman ("Ali Kushayb"); The Prosecutor v. Omar Hassan Ahmad Al Bashir; The Prosecutor v. Bahar Idriss Abu Garda and The Prosecutor v. Abdallah Banda Abakaer Nourain and Saleh Mohammed Jerbo Jamus
The suspect Bahr Idriss Abu Garda appeared voluntarily for the first time before Pre-Trial Chamber I on 18 May 2009. He is not in custody. The three other suspects remain at large.
In the situation in the Central African Republic, the case The Prosecutor v. Jean-Pierre Bemba Gombo is at the trial stage.
On 6 November, 2009, the Presidency of the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued a decision assigning the situation in the Republic of Kenya to Pre-Trial Chamber II. Pre-Trial Chamber II granted the Prosecutor, on 31 March 2010, authorisation to open an investigation in the situation of Kenya.
On 8 March 2011, Pre-Trial Chamber II, by Majority, issued its decisions on the applications submitted by the Prosecutor to summon William Samoei Ruto, Henry Kiprono Kosgey, Joshua Arap Sang , as well as Francis Kirimi Muthaura, Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta and Mohammed Hussein Ali to appear before the Court on 7 April 2011.
On 26 February, the United Nations Security Council decided unanimously to refer the situation in Libyan Arab Jamahiriya since 15 February 2011 to the ICC Prosecutor. On 3 March 2011 the ICC Prosecutor announced his decision to the open an investigation in the situation in Libya, which is assigned by the Presidency to Pre-Trial Chamber I"
The individuals being indicted are not your average domestic criminal. The trials are ongoing, so it would be valid to say the processes of justice are slow moving, but to say that it is inneffective because it does not prosecute people is clearly spreading misinformation. To date only one person has been acquitted, and the proceedings against another discontinued because he died. A number of these individuals are being held in custody....effectively gaoled....whilst their trials are completed. The firsat trial scheduled for completion is the trtrial against Mr Kony, due in mid August of this year.
And where is the US in all of this. After signing the MOU to the treaty formation, which has the legal effect of making them observe the spirit of the treaty charter and not undertake activities that might be considered contrary to its intent, the US decided this was not for them, and withdrew even that tentative signature. They were joined, understandably, by Israel and remain the only two nations which I would classify as "progressive" as not having at least signed the treaty. Nearly all the other progressive western nations have both signed and ratified the treaty, even Russia has signed it at least. By rejecting the treaty in its entirety, the US and Israel are rubbing shoulders with such luminary nations as North Korea, Egypt, Yemen, China, India, Saudi Arabia, Libya and Syria. These other nations dont want to sign I think because they dont want to be investigated, and dont want any of their "states persons" tried under international law. One should draw ones own conclusions as to why the US has rejected this fledgling attampt at ongoing legal enforcement. It may have something to do with who is running it. I'll give you a hint.....Its a continent starting with "E" and ending with "e"
michaelmaltby
Colonel
All points are are noted and well-taken Parsifal. I appreciate your appreciation for the big picture on this. I too think the putting-to-rest of the Osama termination is overdue.
I'm off this morning to my retreat in the woods - bear country - 2.5 hours north of Toronto. Trust Fall is unfolding pleasantly down under in Orange, NSW.
Chairs from the Great White North
MM
I'm off this morning to my retreat in the woods - bear country
- 2.5 hours north of Toronto. Trust Fall is unfolding pleasantly down under in Orange, NSW. Chairs from the Great White North
MM
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parsifal
Colonel
you lucky sob. wish i was there. I am going fishin in my new motorized zodiac in two weeks, so we will possibly compare notes then
michaelmaltby
Colonel
(Sorry about file size)
Two + acres on a river in the bush of the Halliburton Highlands (pre Cambrian shield) with my niece from France's son Mikho. No neighbors
.I don't fish and I don't hunt but I feed the birds year round - winter especially.
MM
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
Thats not nice using baby as bait for black fliesView attachment 167304
(Sorry about file size)
Two + acres on a river in the bush of the Halliburton Highlands (pre Cambrian shield) with my niece from France's son Mikho. No neighbors
I don't fish and I don't hunt but I feed the birds year round - winter especially.
MM
michaelmaltby
Colonel
Sure it is, he's from F*****
.MM
parsifal
Colonel
gee MM, I didnt think you were that young man....who is the old guy in the background????
renrich
Chief Master Sergeant
I saw Senator Imhofe (sp?) on TV saying that he saw the photos of UBL and that he was shot twice in the head, one round going through the eye and that the photos taken after he was cleaned up showed only the two wounds. Don't know where the story about being shot in the chest came from. I agree that the full story is going to be hard to come by but I suspect that there are a number of Seal and Seal alumni who already have the full story. There was a photo circulating on the internet the day the mission was announced that certainly looked like UBL with one hole in the forehead and one in the eye. I don't doubt that it is possible that someone actually made that photo and circulated it.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
.... and the exploding bullets, blow-back thro the entry ... that's news to me. Exit's usually the sloppy one.
Show the bloody pictures and make your actions "observable" to all of us - USA.
Parsifal - "process" followed or process dispensed with - I don't give a damn - GOOD is going to come from this. If I were a moderate Pakistani - right now I would be asking some very hard questions about my government and my beloved military (not getting answers mind you, but .... asking ...).
Clearly there was a long-agreed-to arrangement that if US Intelligence located Bin Laden they were going "take" him. And the Pakistanis were going to be suitably "pissed". The only hope for Pakistan in all this is to decide whether it wants to be a Muslim state, or a modern Western-facing state. In either case - it is a nuclear state. Frightening - now imagine Iran.
No bears last night, but moose - driving in. Black flies.
MM
Show the bloody pictures and make your actions "observable" to all of us - USA.
Parsifal - "process" followed or process dispensed with - I don't give a damn - GOOD is going to come from this. If I were a moderate Pakistani - right now I would be asking some very hard questions about my government and my beloved military (not getting answers mind you, but .... asking ...).
Clearly there was a long-agreed-to arrangement that if US Intelligence located Bin Laden they were going "take" him. And the Pakistanis were going to be suitably "pissed". The only hope for Pakistan in all this is to decide whether it wants to be a Muslim state, or a modern Western-facing state. In either case - it is a nuclear state. Frightening - now imagine Iran.
No bears last night, but moose - driving in. Black flies.
MM
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