P-38 Lightning VS F6F Hellcat, Pacific Warriors!

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Interesting figures. Do you have any info on the P-43 victories in the PTO?

They are very interesting. Overall, Japanese aircraft losses in the war were about 45000, of which the japanese say 17000 were to non-combat causes. Estimates for the USN flak kills are about 2500-3000. We dont have losses to ground fire from other sources, but surely less than 1000. According to GGs list, I count roughly 13000 to fighters. That leaves about 12000 un-accounted for , but most likely to two main causes: bombers and ground overruns. We know that the Russians claim at least 1700 captured in the very last days of the war, and upwards of 1000 in their air combats (making them the second highest nationality in the pacific). They also make what are considered spurious claims for pre-1941 losses in the japanese air forces of around 1000 aircraft. I dont have any information on chinese claims 1937-45. That leaves about 9000 to bombers and other causes, excluding chinese and early war Russian claims.

Of the 45000 over 5000 were expended as Kamikazes, and of these about 2000 were lost to flak (which rather brings the flak losses into question).

As you know Japanese losses are really hard to accurately pinpoint in that top down approach, and I dont have the detailed ground up knowledge that you or Joe have......but in a very rough and general way, I think these estimates roughly tally up
 
Now you're gone for 3 weeks - you don't learn. I've told you several times to READ some of the threads on this site and LEARN what we're about, but you're too stubborn and thick headed to keep your mouth shut and just LEARN. Some of us have more time around warbrids then you've been alive, but instead of embracing that resource you just continue to shove your head further up your butt. I'm being overly tolerant with you, just not banning you outright so you have one more chance. Heed these words and if you decide to come back - you will not get another warning!!!!
 
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It's my opinion the Hellcats would have creamed the Japanese aircraft at Midway, and sunk that whole striking force, too, had we had them, imbalances in pilot experience notwithstanding. They were just that good, in my opinion. I was just wondering if that's what you meant, or were thinking differently. That's not to say there isn't room for thinking differently. I'll concede there is, as we're weighing a lot of factors.
 

The Hellcat itself as a fighting platform just was not that good compared to the Zero. A little faster, not much, similar rolling, did not turn or climb as well, and dove better, from a slight advantage in the dive if looking at the A6M3 to a much larger advantage if looking at earlier versions. It's more durable and armored better, and has similar firepower.

It was better than the Zero yes, but not by a real big margin.
 

Do you happen to know the location of these victories GG? I've always liked the P-43 and had never heard of it claiming any kills outside the CBI theatre.
 
F6F:. 5,160
F4U:. 2,140
P-38: 1,700
F4F:. 986
P-47: 697
P-40: 660
FM-2: 422
P-51: 297
P-39: 288
SBD: 138
TBF: 98

P-61: 63
F2A:. 10
P-36: 3
P-43: 3
P-26: 2
P-70: 2
P-35: 1

For the TBF and the SBD, was it defensive fire?

Wasn't there one SBD pilot who used his forward firing guns to shoot down a Japanese fighter?
 
The SBD was actually used as a fleet defensive fighter on several occasions, but you may be thinking about "Swede" Vetjaska who fought and downed two Mitsubishi A6M aircraft during the Battle of Coral Sea.

The SBD downed several Japanese torpedo and dive bombers as well as downing fighters both by defensive fire and by attacking with the forward armament. I believe the numbers shown were for total Japanese aircraft downed, both offensively and defensively.

The TBF/TBM wasn't used as a fighter like the SBD but still had situations where they challenged Japanese bombers and fighters, so the numbers would reflect defensive and offensive victories.
 


Would love to see those numbers compared to air to air losses
 

Hey Flyboy, I get why this kid has annoyed you and I'm not taking issue with your decision, but if he's really only twelve, couldn't you language have been a little more considered? Just a thought.
 
Hey Flyboy, I get why this kid has annoyed you and I'm not taking issue with your decision, but if he's really only twelve, couldn't you language have been a little more considered? Just a thought.

NO

This issue isn't for discussion or debate so I suggest it gets dropped now.
 
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NO

This issue isn't for discussion or debate so I suggest it gets dropped now
.


Well, I guess if I have issues with a culture where a moderator feels justified in telling a twelve year old he is thick, stubborn and has his head up his butt, I can always leave. Thanks and all the best everyone - you too, Flyboy.
 
Well, I guess if I have issues with a culture where a moderator feels justified in telling a twelve year old he is thick, stubborn and has his head up his butt, I can always leave. Thanks and all the best everyone - you too, Flyboy.
Here, I'll make it easy for ya!

Now can we get this thread back on track please.
 
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My interest would be the P-39 and P-40 (hint, hint)
 

I wonder how many people would get banned over a database of victories. I reckon it would just be the mods left whilst everyone else is on the beach
 

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