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Interesting figures. Do you have any info on the P-43 victories in the PTO?
Now you're gone for 3 weeks - you don't learn. I've told you several times to READ some of the threads on this site and LEARN what we're about, but you're too stubborn and thick headed to keep your mouth shut and just LEARN. Some of us have more time around warbrids then you've been alive, but instead of embracing that resource you just continue to shove your head further up your butt. I'm being overly tolerant with you, just not banning you outright so you have one more chance. Heed these words and if you decide to come back - you will not get another warning!!!!And YOU understand that you are being a jerk. Yes, I am 12, but if people really want to know that, they can go to my profile. I am a lot smarter then you think, and while not as smart as the people on this site, about 60% smarter then people my age. You are acting like the bullies at my old school, calling me stupid and pretending I can't hear you. Lighten up a bit, will you? Please take MY feelings into consideration before you post.
CV-6
It's my opinion the Hellcats would have creamed the Japanese aircraft at Midway, and sunk that whole striking force, too, had we had them, imbalances in pilot experience notwithstanding. They were just that good, in my opinion. I was just wondering if that's what you meant, or were thinking differently. That's not to say there isn't room for thinking differently. I'll concede there is, as we're weighing a lot of factors.The F6F Hellcat may have been delivered to the U.S. Navy in 1942, but didn't see action against the Japanese until September of 1943.
To expand a little on the part about the "Turkey Shoot":
The Battle of the Philippine Sea commenced on 19-20 June, 1944, and it was a solid defeat of Imperial Japanese forces both in the air and at sea. It was such a route, that it's been nicknamed the "Marianas Turkey Shoot" because Japanese air power was virtually swept from the sky. Estimated losses for Japanese aircraft were as high as 645 against U.S. losses of 123.
Two years earlier, the Battle of Midway commenced 4-7 June, 1942, where the Japanese to U.S. aircraft loss ratio was much closer to a match.
Several factors came into play at the Marianas Turkey Shoot: better radio communications, improved radar, improved and veteran U.S. pilots, poorer trained and fewer veteran Japanese pilots and the presence of dominant U.S. fighters (Hellcat).
Had the Japanese made better decisions and employed better CAP, the attacking U.S. land and sea elements would have fared far worse then they did during the Battle of Midway. At the Battle of the Phillippine Sea, the Japanese land and sea elements simply did not have a chance.
It's my opinion the Hellcats would have creamed the Japanese aircraft at Midway, and sunk that whole striking force, too, had we had them, imbalances in pilot experience notwithstanding. They were just that good, in my opinion. I was just wondering if that's what you meant, or were thinking differently. That's not to say there isn't room for thinking differently. I'll concede there is, as we're weighing a lot of factors.
The figures for the Lancer are somewhat vague, unfortunately. It seems that most of the victories scored by the P-43 were intercepting high-altitude, long-range KI-46 "Dinah" recon aircraft. There were 3 victories in the PTO and 3 more in the CBI for 6 total while service with the USAAC/USAAF.
The P-43A had good speed and high altitude performance (ceiling was almost 36,000ft./10,970m) but was a poor match for the Japanese fighters at lower altitudes. With some modifications, it may have become a decent fighter, but it's R-1830 radial was in high demand for the B-24 and DC-3, so any upgrades were abandoned and production stopped after 272 were built.
F6F:. 5,160
F4U:. 2,140
P-38: 1,700
F4F:. 986
P-47: 697
P-40: 660
FM-2: 422
P-51: 297
P-39: 288
SBD: 138
TBF: 98
P-61: 63
F2A:. 10
P-36: 3
P-43: 3
P-26: 2
P-70: 2
P-35: 1
Let's take a look at the total numbers of U.S. victories by type.
But before we do, let's also take into consideration the conditions the U.S. was operating with during the Pacific theater. The Japanese had an advantage at the start with good performing, long range aircraft manned by well trained and seasoned pilots. The U.S. started the war with older or untested designs manned by trained but unseasoned pilots.
As the war progressed, improvement of U.S. aircraft designs, better training and an increase of men and materials caught up to and passed the abilities of the Japanese ability to supply aircraft and trained pilots to the battle front.
This is where the aircraft like the F6F were able to overtake the earlier aircraft types with such high numbers of victories.
The following victories by type represent the PTO only. Any victories in other theaters (ETO, MTO, CBI) are not included:
F6F:. 5,160
F4U:. 2,140
P-38: 1,700
F4F:. 986
P-47: 697
P-40: 660
FM-2: 422
P-51: 297
P-39: 288
SBD:. 138
TBF:. 98
P-61: 63
F2A:. 10
P-36: 3
P-43: 3
P-26: 2
P-70: 2
P-35: 1
The numbers for aircraft listed above include all versions of that type listed. The numbers are as close to accurate as possible, based on various sources.
There may be some that will want to argue over the absolute exact number of victories, but these are presented to show how the F6F measured up to other U.S. types used in the PTO and again, taking into consideration the circumstances (as I mentioned at the beginning of this post) of how it came to have such a high count.
I have been mulling over the idea of creating a forum database of victories by type. We have alot of folks here who would be able to contribute accurate numbers.Would love to see those numbers compared to air to air losses
!Now you're gone for 3 weeks - you don't learn. I've told you several times to READ some of the threads on this site and LEARN what we're about, but you're too stubborn and thick headed to keep your mouth shut and just LEARN. Some of us have more time around warbrids then you've been alive, but instead of embracing that resource you just continue to shove your head further up your butt. I'm being overly tolerant with you, just not banning you outright so you have one more chance. Heed these words and if you decide to come back - you will not get another warning!!!
Hey Flyboy, I get why this kid has annoyed you and I'm not taking issue with your decision, but if he's really only twelve, couldn't you language have been a little more considered? Just a thought.
Here, I'll make it easy for ya!Well, I guess if I have issues with a culture where a moderator feels justified in telling a twelve year old he is thick, stubborn and has his head up his butt, I can always leave. Thanks and all the best everyone - you too, Flyboy.
I have been mulling over the idea of creating a forum database of victories by type. We have alot of folks here who would be able to contribute accurate numbers.
It would take alot of work and research, plus there will of course, be conflicting opinions.
I have been mulling over the idea of creating a forum database of victories by type. We have alot of folks here who would be able to contribute accurate numbers.
It would take alot of work and research, plus there will of course, be conflicting opinions.
Whenever statistics are discussed, there's always a strong debate over numbers.I wonder how many people would get banned over a database of victories. I reckon it would just be the mods left whilst everyone else is on the beach
I wonder how many people would get banned over a database of victories. I reckon it would just be the mods left whilst everyone else is on the beach
would have been 1,000,001 but a P-38 snuck in and poached the Hellcat's kill!Only if it shows that the Hellcat shot down 1,000,000 aircraft for the loss of 3.....