P-40 vs. Hurricane

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I read somewhere that Jimmie Thach was confronted about F4F pilots dismayed about some modles only having 4 guns as opposed to 6. His response was "What good is having 6 guns when you can't hit anything with 4?" :evil4:[/quote]

LOL, never heard that one. Still, even though I am firmly in the P-40 camp, wasn't one of the drawbacks of the P-40 is that it could only use Prestone coolant. It seems to me in reading several Flying Tigers accounts and books, that the AVG guys would go nuts trying to find Prestone. (I am at work and don't have the time or resources to verify all of this)

As far as carrying bombs, and I my have missed this somewhere back there, it was until the introduction of the KIttyhawk variant of the P-40 that it could carry bombs, the P-40 Warhawks, unless they were really modified could not.

:{)
 
CurzonDax said:
I read somewhere that Jimmie Thach was confronted about F4F pilots dismayed about some modles only having 4 guns as opposed to 6. His response was "What good is having 6 guns when you can't hit anything with 4?" :evil4:
Click to expand...

LOL, never heard that one. Still, even though I am firmly in the P-40 camp, wasn't one of the drawbacks of the P-40 is that it could only use Prestone coolant. It seems to me in reading several Flying Tigers accounts and books, that the AVG guys would go nuts trying to find Prestone. (I am at work and don't have the time or resources to verify all of this)

As far as carrying bombs, and I my have missed this somewhere back there, it was until the introduction of the KIttyhawk variant of the P-40 that it could carry bombs, the P-40 Warhawks, unless they were really modified could not.

:{)[/quote]

Actually it was the "C" model (Tomahawk MK IIB) that started carrying bombs....
 

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GOT THIS FROM A "DEAD" SITE LINK, GREAT INFORMATION CONCERNING THE P-40B VS. THE ME-109 - SOMEONE DID THEIR HOMEWORK!


Top Speed
The values have been measured offline with air start at the respective altitude, 100% fuel, after 4 min acceleration at 100% power and another 2 min acceleration at War Emergency Power.

The Me 109E-4 is slightly faster below 7500 ft, somewhat slower than the P-40B from 7500 - 16000 ft, and faster above that, with its superiority increasing with altitude.
Climb Rate
A graphical comparison of the climb rates. The values have been measure offline, take-off with 100% fuel, climb at 100% power (no War Emergency Power) using the climb autopilot. The climb rates were averaged over the time clocked for 5000 ft intervals (with the 1st interval above ground level from 1000 - 5000 ft.)

Climb speed for the P-40B 130 mph
Climb speed for the Me 109E-4 130 mph
The climb rate of the Me 109E-4 is very much superior to that of the P-40B. It starts with a +50% advantage at sea level and increases to a +100% advantage at 17500 ft.
The climb rate is subject to some variation according to power setting and total weight (mainly determined by the fuel load):
Average Climb Rate 1000 - 10000 ft
Type Climb rate [fpm]
Normal Power WEP (100% fuel) WEP (10% fuel)
P-40B 2300 2700 3200
Me 109E-4 3500 3900 4500
Obviously, even a lightly loaded P-40B on WEP will not outclimb a fully loaded Me 109E-4 on 100% normal power.

Manoeuvrability
Roll Rate
The P-40B is superior to the Me 109E-4 in rolling at all speeds, though at high speeds the superiority is greatest. While the Messerschmitt's ailerons seem almost frozen at 400 mph, the P-40B rolls very quickly at that speed, and to both sides with equal ease.

Time for a 360° Roll

SEE BELOW

The roll rates were measured with 100% fuel at about 1000 - 5000 ft altitude at the respective indicated air speeds.
Turning
The P-40B turns better than the Me 109E-4 at all speeds. While the difference is not very large, it's quite noticable.
Here the specific excess power values for a 3-G turn at 200 mph that is flown from 5000 ft - 1000 ft as a shallow spiral dive (using WEP).
Typ 3-G Turn at 200 mph
Time Specific Excess Power
P-40B 158 s -25.3 ft/s
Me 109E-4 150 s -26.7 ft/s


Firepower
The Firepower of the P-40B is not very impressive, but adequate. The Me 109E-4 on the other hand enjoys good firepower, but the ammunition supply is much more limited.

SEE BELOW

Tactics
At altitudes above 18000 ft, the Me 109E-4 clearly outperforms the P-40B. Between 18000 ft and 8000 ft the P-40B enjoys a greater top speed, while the Me 109E-4 holds a vast advantage in climb. Below 8000 ft, the Me 109E-4 is slightly faster than the P-40B. When it comes to turning, the P-40B however is superior at all but the highest altitudes.
Tactics for the P-40B
The P-40B should avoid combat against he Me 109E-4 at altitudes above 18000 ft. Should it be attacked by a Messerschmitt at high altitude, flat turns are a good defense as they force the Me 109 to bleed speed. If that fails, a dive to a lower altitude will probably shake the Messerschmitt - a dive to 15000 ft will bring the P-40B into its region of superior top speed. If it's necessary to dive even lower, the best way would be to dive to the deck as the speeds are almost equal there. A sharp roll to the left at high speed and a pullout at 90° to the initial flight path will give the P-40B a good headstart as it's impossible for the Me 109E to roll anywhere as quickly in a dive.
Offensively, it's important to exploit the superior speed at medium altitude to catch the Me 109E-4. An altitude advantage at the beginning of the fight defeats the Messerschmitt's greatest advantage: Its superior climbing ability. Its manoeuvrablity enables the P-40B to keep its energy advantage throughout the attack, which may be better than sacrificing the energy to saddle up on the Me 109's tail in case there are more enemies in the area. It also helps to defeat any attempt to dive away.
When firing the guns, it's a good idea to stay aware of the differences between the two sets of guns: The two 12.7 mm machine guns in the nose are very accurate no matter what the range is, and they have the same or better firepower as the four 7.62 mm wing guns. The 12.7 mm guns accordingly should be used at all ranges, in contrast to the wing guns that should be set to a short convergence distance (like 150 yards) and fired - in addition to the centreline guns! - at short range only.
Tactics for the Me 109E-4
The best tactics for the Me 109E-4 obviously would be to fight the P-40B over 18000 ft. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that the enemy is cooperative enough to comply with this suggestion! For the best chances of success, the Me 109E-4 needs to make sure that it enters any fight with an altitude advantage, and it's imperative to avoid being surprised by a P-40B.
If the approach of a P-40 (or any unidentified enemy) is spotted at long range, climbing probably is the best option as long as there's a chance of getting above the attacker. Even if the P-40B gives chase, it's possible to outrun it at altitudes where the P-40 is supposed to be faster in level flight if the Messerschmitt pilots climbs away. A very shallow angle might be best to deny the P-40B the option to come in level and close by zooming up. As long as the P-40B is forced to climb at all, it loses part of its engine power to lift the heavy weight of its airframe, and as a result it loses its speed advantage, too.
A P-40 at about the same altitude and speed can be shaken by a dive that leads into a smooth level run at 5000 ft where the Me 109E-4's speed advantage is at its maximum. Below 1000 ft, a shallow climb might be in order to get a noticable speed advantage, as long as it doesn't mean the P-40B can zoom up into an attack right then. Turning is not a good defensive move for the Me 109E-4, but it might be unavoidable if the P-40B is about to get into a shooting position.
To successfully attack a P-40B, the Me 109E-4 needs to hold an energy advantage. Following the P-40B into a turn is not a good idea - the P-40B turns better, and the Messerschmitt needs to keep its energy advantage to get away after an unsuccessful gunnery pass. If the P-40B dives away, it should only be followed if it doesn't have too much of a headstart - else, a lengthy tail chase would result, and if the P-40B turns back into the attacker, maybe even a turning fight at deck level which the Me 109E-4 probably would lose.
In general, the best tactics involve climbing back up over the P-40B after each attack so that it's possible to fly repeated attacks against the P-40. The firepower of the Me 109E-4 will ensure the P-40 pilot's demise if he makes just a single mistake.
 

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Yeah, but its a clever marketing technique. You think ooh, only a quid and buy it, only then to find out theyre making up the rest of the money on postage. Annoys me to no end.
 
Especially when using Credit Cards, band accounts or buying those supposadly "cheap" things online. Also never sign up for websites that supposadly only charge you once without reading the fine print. I have been cought paying for 2 years before because I did not.
 
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