Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Hmmmm ...... some people at the Best Pacific Fighter thread say the Hellcat was tops.
From Naval Aviation Combat Statistics, WWII
Page 58:
Thus comparisons are valid between the carrier F6F and F4U totals because they generally operated from the same ships during the same period.
...
Certain tentative conclusions may be reached from these two tables:
(a) The F6F was slightly superior to the F4U in combat, apparently chiefly because of its greater ability to survive damage.
And on Page 79, Note (e) to Table 29
The F6F appears to have had considerable advantage over the F4U when flown under the same conditions. Receiving about the same number of hits per sortie in comparable operations, the F6F had a far lower rate of loss per plane hit.
I agree, I find the resistance to this data point very puzzling, and more so the more it's explained just how broad and side by side it was. Rarely is any comparison between two planes as broad and 'apples to apples' as that one. And it's reinforced anecdotally by the F4U's poor reputation for ground fire vulnerability in Korea, and eventual redesign of oil cooler arrangement and uparmoring (in AU-1) to deal with it. There is no valid reason to to doubt that conclusion: F4U distinctly more vulnerable to ground fire than F6F.See the table on page 78 and the following note "e" on page 79. Note the number of sorties flown from carriers in 1945 with AA present. 22,000 sorties for both aircraft. The report earlier states that the two aircraft were operating from the same ships in 1945 on this data point.
3rd, This fits in nicely with a paperback I am presently re-reading. ( they stay with me forever) Its about an 8th AF pilot that starts out in Thunderbolts, then switches to Mustangs. He pretty much said what it sounded like Snort's father was saying. The Mustang was better, but in the Thunderbolt he felt safer. I guess when things get ugly, and you are on the receiving end, advantage Thunderbolt !
Another great read, thanks to all!
Download the NASC document from the link above, and look at the actual tables showing results of side by side operations of the same kind. The F4U operational loss rate *per action sortie* from CV's, in '45, was 50% higher than F6F's rate from CV's in 1945. The AAA loss rate *per sortie encountering AA fire* in carrier operations in 1945 was more than that much higher for the F4U. The ordnance dropped *per strike sortie* in carrier operations in 1945 was almost the same for the two types. Prior to 1945 there is no fair comparison because there was no large number of carrier or land based strike sorties for *both* types in the *same* period, but the 1945 carrier results are a statistically quite large sample. I gave the specific table references for each of those statements in the thread on Pacific Fighter.Yes, it was massive alright, they both flew about the same number of combat sorties although the Corsair dropped more than twice the tonnage of bombs and the Hellcat's were more air to air and the Hellcat lost 553 AC to AAA and the Corsair lost 349 to AAA. Massive, huh?
Which book? Ace of the Eighth by Fortier?
Yes sir. I enjoyed the book everytime I read it.
QUOTE]
Bud just passed away in late 2005. He was a very good friend of my father and was very complimentary of dad in the book.
Bud got his only score in a P-47 in the last mission he flew in a P-47 on March 6.. all the rest were in 51's.
Bud also was one of several pilots in the 355th that 'wrung out a D-9 in rat races with 51's while at Gablingen at the end of his tour. He and dad came home together
All this talk on one document concerning the Hellcats survivability vs the Corairs got me thinking about one specific bit of info again and again:
Pilot protection....
All during the discussion, the info states "the F6F had a far lower rate of loss per plane hit." Could there be some disparity because many of the Corsair pilots were getting hit as opposed to a less number of Navy guys in their Hellcats, possibly due to their attempt to get closer and deliver the ordinance on target with a higher probability???
The Corsair was also a larger target for enemy gunners to aim at... I wonder which aircraft had the higher attack speed when delivering munitions..... I would assume the Hellcat was faster going into the attack, which would have made it harder to hit and easier to survive in during ground attack duties...
Which plane had more armor protection for the pilot???
There are too many variables involved in such a comlicated comparison to just say the oil coolers were the reason.... Some very not-to-bright guys in the Navy came to this very abrupt conclusion Im sure....
Which plexiglass canopy protected the pilot better???
Which headrest deflected shrapnel more effectivly???
Also, if the planes were brought down by enemy ground units, they usually crashed in enemy held territory and were thus unavailable to US investigation as to why they went down, oil cooler/pilot trauma or whatever reason... Too many variables involved for me too make this decision soley based on loss ratios....
Great discussion none the less fellas...