P-51

[Huckebein]

How diplomatic/ nationalistic/ jealous are you feeling?

The most successful marks of P-51 Mustang were American airframes, built to a British specification, used a British engine, designed by a German, and flown by pilots of all Allied nationalities (except p'raps Russian).

So the question/ statement is: (see above)

 

[cheddar cheese]

ive gone for one of the best american fighters

 

[Huckebein]

Hmmm, fair enough - what state would the Americans in Europe have been in had the British not ordered the Mustang in 1940/1 (can't remember which), and then re'engined it in '43? As it is the Merlin Mustangs didn't reach active service 'til '44.

 

[plan_D]

It's really a stupid poll. I'd say it was the best American fighter because it was the best the Americans had.

 

[cheddar cheese]

ive seen worse polls, just look at all the ones ive made?

 

[Huckebein]

Ok, sorry it doesn't meet your standards Plan_D, it was just a light-hearted poll to see what discussion the suggestion would inspire. Even I voted it was an American plane, I just heard a friend of mine once comment that for an American plane it had an awful lot of foreign input in it...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

exactily, how can you say it was an american plane, it had a brittish engine and brittish designers, but i'm gona go with the text book and say it was an american plane, we gotta give them credit for summit...................

 

[Lightning Guy]

British designers? The P-51 was a good plane, but, as I have mentioned before, it was over-rated. The P-51D was no better (and in some areas worse) that the P-38L.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

it made a better escort than the P-38 though..............

 

[Lightning Guy]

That would be very tough to prove. The P-51 didn't arrive in strength until mid '44 or so. By the time they arrived the American pilots had gotten better, the German pilots were, on average, getting worse (loss of pilots, lack of fuel for training), and the American tactics no longered required the fighters to stay ties to the bombers. The P-38 wasn't really given those chances and I imagine would have done very well if had.

 

[Erich]

Pioneer Mustang group, the 354th in late November 1943 and surprised the heavy rocket laden Bf 110G-2's attacking heavy US bombers more than once.

Luftwaffe tactics changed on 7-7-44 on the Blitzschlacht über Oschersleben, but even this could not help overwhelmed Luftwaffe fighter pilots. And that friends is the whole ball of wax. due to bombing, thus resulting in lack of oil/fuel reserves, strafing and bombing of forward airfields and completely driven from the skies the Luftwaffe was in a hopeless situation except to send up new "kids" on suicidal missions.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

the He-162 was a good plane but all the germans had left when it came in were hitler youth pilots who only had training in gliders, bit of a step up................

 

[Erich]

the He 162 was another death ride like the Me 163 komet. not enough thought, time or working out the malfunctions of jet and fuselage. Niether was time on the Germans side either. only JG 1 had the a/c on hand and the unit lost some excellent pilots due to mechanical air breakdowns. one claim of an RAF a/c possibly but still uncertain.

 

[cheddar cheese]

well, for starters, making out of wood was where it went wrong for me, then where they positioned the jet... i mean i love the plane but it had its faults 8)

whilst im here, does anyone have any info on the BI-1 rocket plane?

 

[Erich]

CC the a/c was fatal from the time it left the drawing board. an ill-conceived idea from the start. worthless in everyway and not having a benfit to aviation history except to say that it killed it's own........there were grander schemes on the German tech boards and they should of furthered them. Focke Wulf had some quite interesting propostions that should of shown the light of day

 

[cheddar cheese]

is that for the BI-1 or the 162?

 

[Lightning Guy]

The He-162 was simple to produce and that's why it received the attention it did. Germany wasn't necessarily looking for the best thing just a good thing FAST. Now whether or not the 162 was a good thing is a matter of debate. In the hands of a skilled pilot, it probably could have been handled. In the hands of some green HJs it would do well to take off.

 

[Erich]

as I said expereicned pilots of JG 1 died as the result of this monstorusity. 12 to be exact. Irreplaceable pilots and what reallys sucks is that it was at the war's end and it really did not matter whether this goofy piece of equipment flew or not...........

sad story to be sure

E ~

 

[Huckebein]

Here you go CC: http://www.astronautix.com/craft/bi1.htm

As for the '162 - it sounds a bit of a foolhardy effort to me. They went for a quick and easy solution to air-defence problems = a recipe for disaster. You can't go half-hearted on these things, and they learned that the hard way I think.

 

[cheddar cheese]

cheers and as for your siggy, thats not a crash, its a model