P-61 Black Widow thread

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Erich, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    you guys that are interested may want to view this thread on going as I am releasing some of my data from a future work, log on and join and add your two cents if you would like ..............

    Northop P61-B "Black Widow" - World War II Forums

    E ~
     
  2. B-17engineer

    B-17engineer Active Member

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    :oops: Forgot my password to that site!!
     
  3. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    anyone can view the texts without a log-on only fotos cannot be seen.
     
  4. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    1945 P-61 Cost.
    Army Air Forces in World War II
    $ 199,598
    I don't know if this includes the cost of radar equipment.

    1943 Ju-88A4 Tropical Production Cost.
    Unfortunately I don't have a price for 1945 Ju-88G. However it's probably less as the production cost kept dropping.
    http://www.econ.yale.edu/growth_pdf/cdp905.pdf
    139,274 marks.
    $ 55,710 if we assume 2.5 marks per dollar.
    This does not include radar equipment cost.
     
  5. Milosh

    Milosh Well-Known Member

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    One can't compare costs.

    Didn't read the text? >> "cost of a complete airplane ready for flyaway" So the P-61 cost included its radar.
     
  6. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    Do you think 104 RAF heavy bombers would have been destroyed on March 30, 1944 if German night fighters cost three or four times as much? I don't. Low production cost for the most important German aircraft types is why the Luftwaffe still had significant numbers of operational aircraft right up to 1945.

    -- Bombing raid information from "The Other Battle" by Peter Hinchliffe.
    95 RAF bombers shot down.
    9 additional bombers destroyed by crash landing in England. I assume they were badly damaged.
     
  7. Milosh

    Milosh Well-Known Member

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    Be sure 'slave labour' will bring the cost down.

    What determines the cost of an a/c?

    What was the overhead cost of German factories?
    What was the overhead cost of American factories?
    How much did it cost to put an a/c into production?
    What are the respective wages?
    What was the cost of materials to build the a/c?
    What was the cost of shipping these materials to the factories?
    How much taxes were paid?

    And so on and so on.
     
  8. Night Fighter Nut

    Night Fighter Nut Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for starting this thread Erich. I read through what I could from the link but had trouble getting through the last couple of pages. I noticed one of the entries said that the P-61 had airbrakes. I believe this is incorrect. The P-61 had spoiler ailerons, not zap flaps or airbrakes. These spoiler ailerons allowed the plane to be more maneuverable than if it just had those small ailerons on the ends of the wing. The regular ailerons on the wings were only there to help the pilots feel better about the plane. It could function just fine without them. Air brakes or speed brakes were introduced on the P-61C. The idea of using zap flaps on the plane was only when the plane was going through the design phase. They tried them on the plane but found the spoiler ailerons worked better and incorperated them into production. :)
     
  9. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    I believe you are using the correct terminology instead of air brakes, as I said in those postings the P-61 crews still had difficulty in putting on the slows to engage the loitering Ju 87D's.

    thanks for clarifying.


    E ~
     
  10. Snautzer01

    Snautzer01 Well-Known Member

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    I posted a fair amount of pictures ( most not too common) on spread on this board. Would you like a repost here?
     
  11. Smoke

    Smoke Member

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    I know I certainly would.

    The P-61 is my favorite aircraft.
     
  12. Messy1

    Messy1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the post Erich. Any pictures would be welcome>
     
  13. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    yes I have many not seen photos but they are for a future volume I am working on.

    Snautzer go ahead I probably have seen them all or most but please as you wish. the thread on the other site was really to post the mission reports of the ETO units though I do have much on the PTO squadrons but they are not my main interest.
     
  14. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    not to brag guys but if you are interested in any US night fighter ops in the ETO you better bookmark that thread as I am revealing materials you will never find in any published sources so far, throwing in some LW stuff too here and there, will tell ya it is going to get alot more interesting for November and especially December 1944....

    hold on to your panties
     
  15. mhuxt

    mhuxt Active Member

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    Thanks Erich.

    As you know, the published sources don't give proper dates, locations or times for P-61 claims.

    Have you been able to tie up any of the Black Widow claims to losses?

    Cheers,

    Mark
     
  16. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    Very nice Erich! Thanks for the heads up.
     
  17. Snautzer01

    Snautzer01 Well-Known Member

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  18. beaupower32

    beaupower32 Well-Known Member

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    Very intresting, thanks Erich!
     
  19. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    Mark yes at least 1 Ju 88G-6 lost that corresponds with a Widow claim. of course to me the Do 217K claims are full bogus and we know that the 2 Dorniers in spring of 45 on the same date were actually and sad to say two RAF Hudsons shot down on agent drops the Widows were in their protective zones and did not know at all the RAF was sending up these craft in the areas

    I have found the ETO boys flying the Widows were terrible at IDing LW aircraft, you will see more as I include more text as we are in October right now for the 422nd and 425th nfs's, 414th later in December 44.

    enjoy gents !
     
  20. mhuxt

    mhuxt Active Member

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    Hiyas E,

    Yep, I've seen the info on the two Hudsons elsewhere - very upsetting for all concerned. I think there's even a guncam pic in one of the "standard sources."

    There was a Mossie down in Belgium on 25/26 September, but seems to be 100km west of the Widow claim, so perhaps not related. I al;ways get jumpy around claims for 88s and 410s, due to the resemblance.

    Apparently a Widow was shot down in error by a Mossie, never been able to find a date/place/time/serial number though. I think you know about 8/9 April. Apparently there was damage to a 488 Sqn Mossie in late June '44, seems too early though - anything in the microfiches? I don't have the 488 Sqn ORB.

    Cheers,

    Mark
     
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