Passenger jet shot down over Ukraine
- Thread starter Marcel
- Start date
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That says alot about your country Marcel
Yeah here in the US, people would probably just complain about the inconvenience the interstates being shut down for the procession would cause.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
You know there would be some idiots that would just do that.
- Thread starter
- #144
Oh, there probably are some here as well, but I don't think they even dare to speak up.
Glad the government keep their heads cool. Last week, the whole population wanted to send in the marines. Luckily our government didn't do so, but send 40 unarmed Military Police instead. Would be foolish to get us even further in that mess then we are now, without UN support.
parsifal
Colonel
The Australians are negotiatig to send somewhere between 50 and 150 police to try and secure the crash site, but now fighting has flared up again in the locality as the Ukrainins push to regain control of the area.
A police mission into a war zone. not an easy job in a country where language is already a big issue for foreigners
A police mission into a war zone. not an easy job in a country where language is already a big issue for foreigners
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"....without UN support."
How can there ever be UN consideration of this when Russia sits on the Security Council? This is NATO's job + Australia and like-minded cohorts.
How can there ever be UN consideration of this when Russia sits on the Security Council? This is NATO's job + Australia and like-minded cohorts.
- Thread starter
- #147
Michael, that means we'll not send in armed troops and maybe for the better..
The Ukrain government seem to be a major problem now, just as bad as the separatists in this case. They don't respect a ceased fire in the area which means we still cannot retrieve the remaining victims from the site. Dutch/Australian research team had to go back because of the dangerous situation. No sense in adding more victims to this tragedy.
The Ukrain government seem to be a major problem now, just as bad as the separatists in this case. They don't respect a ceased fire in the area which means we still cannot retrieve the remaining victims from the site. Dutch/Australian research team had to go back because of the dangerous situation. No sense in adding more victims to this tragedy.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"...No sense in adding more victims to this tragedy."
I agree .... but the precedent is unsettling ..... let us never forget Korea, 1950. The UN was able to act solely because the USSR had been foolish enough to walk out of the debate. You know that move will never be repeated by Mr. Putin.
I agree .... but the precedent is unsettling ..... let us never forget Korea, 1950. The UN was able to act solely because the USSR had been foolish enough to walk out of the debate. You know that move will never be repeated by Mr. Putin.
Totalize
Tech Sergeant
Very troubling news I heard this morning before coming into work.
THe U.S. apparently has video evidence of rockets being fired from Russia into the Ukraine. If true it is a blatent act of war. This cannot be explained away by saying its the rebels inside Russia engaging in this provocative act. In a geo political sense such acts benefit Russia as NATO has now less of a reason let the Ukraine joint the alliance. Too many securty issues. Also, I think it enhaces Russia's sphere of influence in the region. This really sucks for those Ukrainians who want closer ties with the West. They are really on their own in this whole affair.
THe U.S. apparently has video evidence of rockets being fired from Russia into the Ukraine. If true it is a blatent act of war. This cannot be explained away by saying its the rebels inside Russia engaging in this provocative act. In a geo political sense such acts benefit Russia as NATO has now less of a reason let the Ukraine joint the alliance. Too many securty issues. Also, I think it enhaces Russia's sphere of influence in the region. This really sucks for those Ukrainians who want closer ties with the West. They are really on their own in this whole affair.
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razor1uk
Staff Sergeant
Well comiserations to the fallen, recriminations for the instigators on all sides, may they suffer worse karmically, if this don't blow up to WW4/EuW43 (or whatever EU War number it'd be since records began).
Mm I thinking the baltic states are getting naturally nervous, and again EU, US UN do pratically nothing...
the snake is coiling itself, and yet we/they don't check to see if the snake pole is at hand ready.
1936 to 1939 is what it took last time, this time were only 6 months in to a similar proverbial poo pie garnished with borscht unlike last time.
I severely hope who ever has any power in Russia can use some of this to put commissars weapons to the seperatists heads for crapping over everyones boots so royally tha't even Ivan IV would laugh - mind then Ivan would execute those who went against his wishes.
I'm still under 40, and so, if the sh1tcan goes down, I'll be in 3rd line. ..and considering events of the past, current and likely myriad of futures, I'd gladly go if things go that far for civvy call up.
Mm I thinking the baltic states are getting naturally nervous, and again EU, US UN do pratically nothing...
the snake is coiling itself, and yet we/they don't check to see if the snake pole is at hand ready.
1936 to 1939 is what it took last time, this time were only 6 months in to a similar proverbial poo pie garnished with borscht unlike last time.
I severely hope who ever has any power in Russia can use some of this to put commissars weapons to the seperatists heads for crapping over everyones boots so royally tha't even Ivan IV would laugh - mind then Ivan would execute those who went against his wishes.
I'm still under 40, and so, if the sh1tcan goes down, I'll be in 3rd line. ..and considering events of the past, current and likely myriad of futures, I'd gladly go if things go that far for civvy call up.
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parsifal
Colonel
second investigators abandoned attempts to get to parts of the wreck site, due to heavy fighting.
Turns out the police being assigned to the sites are likley to be armed for self defence, but an emerghency session of the Ukr parliament wont make a decision for another four days. This is an unusual and dangerous situation now. I worry that Australia may find itself at the centre of a much wider conflict.
Time for cooler heads to prevail. We need our investigators to get the sites and do their work. but with a rebel army ill disciplined and frequently drunk on the job, who knows what may happen
Turns out the police being assigned to the sites are likley to be armed for self defence, but an emerghency session of the Ukr parliament wont make a decision for another four days. This is an unusual and dangerous situation now. I worry that Australia may find itself at the centre of a much wider conflict.
Time for cooler heads to prevail. We need our investigators to get the sites and do their work. but with a rebel army ill disciplined and frequently drunk on the job, who knows what may happen
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"....This is an unusual and dangerous situation now. I worry that Australia may find itself at the centre of a much wider conflict..."
It's more like August, 1914 than September, 1939, in a very disturbing way
It's more like August, 1914 than September, 1939, in a very disturbing way
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
i have a distinct feeling it is in the best interest of the guilty party to NOT let the investigators get there until the site is so polluted and contaminated that a concrete determination will be nigh unto impossible....and the longer they can delay that with fighting, etc...the better off they are...and that is exactly what is going on. if they felt any guilt or remorse they would have stepped up and apologized but i feel they think the end justifies any means.....
parsifal
Colonel
maybe, but it is the ukrainains who are doing most of the attacking in that region at the moment
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"...it is the Ukrainians who are doing most of the attacking in that region at the moment"
I realize that ..... they're trying to save their country ..... and they seem to have some MO
I realize that ..... they're trying to save their country ..... and they seem to have some MO
parsifal
Colonel
news service now says US intell suggest the majority of SAM fire is coming from within Russian territory. This is getting worse by the minute.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The current offensive by the Ukranians, from what I understand, is to try and drive the rebels from the region where the crash site is so it can be secured for investigators.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"...try and drive the rebels from the region where the crash site is so it can be secured for investigators."
That is, no doubt, a goal ... but let's put this fighting in perspective ... and the air crash site and human remains scattered around in perspective ... Ukrainian perspective. These people are fighting to keep their country ... to preserve their national identity ... and military action surely is primarily driven by skirmishes and offenses that promise the maximum in regained territory ... I have to believe. I'm afraid this crash site investigation and recovery will remain a casualty of the war that caused it in the first place. We must honor the dead and we must respect the great dignity and outpouring shown by the Dutch people, but it is the Ukrainians on the ground in the Ukraine that are fighting for a more democratic, freer way of life.
Of course missiles are being fired from neighboring Russia ... I believe the US imagery.
MM
Worried Canadian
That is, no doubt, a goal ... but let's put this fighting in perspective ... and the air crash site and human remains scattered around in perspective ... Ukrainian perspective. These people are fighting to keep their country ... to preserve their national identity ... and military action surely is primarily driven by skirmishes and offenses that promise the maximum in regained territory ... I have to believe. I'm afraid this crash site investigation and recovery will remain a casualty of the war that caused it in the first place. We must honor the dead and we must respect the great dignity and outpouring shown by the Dutch people, but it is the Ukrainians on the ground in the Ukraine that are fighting for a more democratic, freer way of life.
Of course missiles are being fired from neighboring Russia ... I believe the US imagery.
MM
Worried Canadian
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
hope these analysts are more on the ball than the ones who saw WMDs in Iraq ( i dont want to start that debate i do know the theories and alibis ).....they just need to use other sources to confirm their findings rather than go off half cocked on a data from a single source. the fact that info was fed to the media i find interesting....we need to know a lot more.
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
double posted
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