Pzkpfw V Panther its variants.

[CharlesBronson]

Thank you, thank you, You can see the complete secuence here:

ww2 german panther tank footage - Google Vídeo

The Panther belonged to the Panzerregiment 33 of the 9th Panzer Division.

And the Pershing crew.

 

[Soren]

At the range this combat action took place a Sherman Easy Eight could've done the same.

Overall the Pershing wasn't a very good tank being underpowered, extremely unreliable and both underarmed armoured compared to the opposition.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Maybe but I dont think the 76mm could go trough a 110mm round face hardened mantlet, even at short range no matter what the penetration tables tell me.

 

[Soren]

The range at which the combat took place was less than 100m, and seeing that the armour quality on the late Panther marks wasn't the best I'm pretty sure the 76mm gun could punch a hole in the gun mantlet of the Panther at that range as-well.

PS: Why do you say "nomatter what the penetration tables tell me" ? Do you have some kind of knowledge regarding armour penetration that the specialists do not ?

The 76mm L/52 gun could punch through 125mm of vertical 240 BHN RHA armour at 100m, so if the angle was straight it would've gone through the mantlet as-well.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Is just a hunch as the metal worker that I am. According to tables the 6 pounders with apds ammo could penetrate the Panther glacis at 300 meters , but the fact was in test it did not pierce that plate, not even at point blank ranges.

But everybody is free to believe wathever they like, if anybody agree that the Sherman 76 mm could penetrate a Panther mantlet ...is fine for me. I am not going to make a scene with that.


Panther Ausf. G. Kampfgruppe Peiper, 1th Div. Panzer SS. La Gleize, Belgium

 

[Soren]

The tables don't suggest a 6 pdr APDS round could penetrate the Panthers glacis at all Charles, quite the opposite. Remember the effects of slope, the Panther's glacis is sloped 55 degree's from the vertical.

I've got the Aberdeen test results for each gun against vertical 240 BHN RHA armour, and using the slope multipliers the 6 pdr APDS round isn't even close to being able to penetrate the Panther's glacis.

Anyway lets move on..

 

[Airframes]

Quick question, Charles. In the sequence, you have shown that the Panther was from 9th Pz. Div. Was this 9th, or 9th. S.S. Hohenstaufen? This is purely for my own interest. BTW, I would suggest that the Panther in the sequence, and certainly the one in the 'still' shot showing it burnt out, is not a late model, but an Ausf. A.
Thanks, Terry.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Is the same , I think they moved out the way with some tractor.

Sorry but I could not tell if that tank is Heer or SS 9th.

The tables don't suggest a 6 pdr APDS round could penetrate the Panthers glacis at all Charles, quite the opposite. Remember the effects of slope, the Panther's glacis is sloped 55 degree's from the vertical

Oh Jesus Christ gime me some patiente, give me some patiente to withstand this guy.

Why you tell me that the glacis plate in the Panther is sloped 55 degress ?

Do you think that I didnt knew that ?

The penetration tables for the apds 1944 57 mmm british round did say that the british gun is capable to penetrate the Panther glacis at 200 or 300 meters away, I dont care ( I repeat) dont care whatever you can tell about it.

 

[Airframes]

Thanks for the answer Charles. Do you happen to have any pics of Panthers known to be taken at Arnhem in September '44? I haven't yet seen any of 9th or 10th SS Panzer at that battle, except PzKfw III and Stug. Would love to see some if you have, thanks again, Terry.

 

[Soren]

You seem to be a very easily agitated person Charles, take it easy there.

The penetration tables for the apds 1944 57 mmm british round did say that the british gun is capable to penetrate the Panther glacis at 200 or 300 meters away, I dont care ( I repeat) dont care whatever you can tell about it.

Well then you don't care about the truth I guess.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Thanks for the answer Charles. Do you happen to have any pics of Panthers known to be taken at Arnhem in September '44? I haven't yet seen any of 9th or 10th SS Panzer at that battle, except PzKfw III and Stug. Would love to see some if you have, thanks again, Terry.

Sure you are talking about this one;

History
In the aftermath of the failed Arnhem offensive the British 6th Guards Tank Brigade was engaged in heavy fighting to gain control of the small Dutch village called Overloon. It was during these fierce battles that tankers of the 4th Armoured Battalion - Coldstream Guards, one of the 2 tank battalions in the brigade, entered a large barn, only to find a Panther tank of the PanzerAbteiling 2, Panzer Brigade 107. This Panther was in running order and quickly put to work in the staff units of the brigade. The use of this captured vehicle was a unique event, so it appears more than once in the official history of the brigade. (6)

After some adjustments were made to the appearance of the vehicle (more about that later) this Panther was used to help the artillery barrage on the Geijsteren castle, just north of Venlo, on the Meuse River. The tank was christened "Cuckoo", which seems to be an appropriate name for such a strange "bird"


In the artillery bombardment on the castle, Cuckoo proved to be a worthy newcomer. After an infantry attack at the castle failed, the decision was made to bombard the castle with artillery. This barrage proved to be not very successful, as the relatively small target was hard to hit with artillery. The 75mm tank guns and 6-pounders were more accurate, but too light to do real impressive damage to the thick walls of the castle.
The Panther tank on the other hand did an outstanding job: " The 95mms were a great success, but "Cuckoo", [………], did best of all, hurling its shells through selected windows with unfailing precision."
Later, during operation "Blackcock" (In an area to the south of Venlo) Cuckoo was deployed again, now to join in on an attack on the German town called Waldenrath. Cuckoo preformed very well again, it's mobility was especially noticeable.

The historian wrote; "The road conditions were abominable all day, but whereas the Churchill's and the Crocodiles, with no ice bars, slid into ditches at every possible opportunity, "Cuckoo" the Panther, eight tons heavier, trundled merrily along with no difficulty at all

Cuckoo

Well then you don't care about the truth I guess.

You are doing some desperate effort to disrupt the topic are you ?

 

[Airframes]

Great pic and great info Charles. Thank you very much indeed!
I'd heard about the 'Panther in the barn', but never seen it.
Thanks again.
Terry.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Great pic and great info Charles. Thank you very much indeed

You are welcome.
I find another photo of the "Cuckoo" , the Panzer is attacking some germans entrenched in a castle northern Holland.

Definately this was the best "british" tank of WW2" and the only with zimmerit.

 

[Micdrow]

You are doing some desperate effort to disrupt the topic are you ?

Word of warning to you both cool off!!! Charles I edited your post. This subject is closed. Keep it civil and to the topic please.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Here we go again, people acting like children.

Somehow it always involves Soren (don't worry Soren I am not blaming you for this one though, but you are still involved...).

How is that it always involves you Soren?

Now having said that, I am backing up Micdrow on this. If it gets out of hand again, thread is closed and the guilty parties (notice I said parties not party) will go on an extended vacation from this site.

We Mods are sick and tired of this childish bullshit! That goes for any thread!

 

[CharlesBronson]

Sorry, maybe I overreacted a bit.

Anti-Aircraft vehicles on Panther chassis. 8,8 cm Flak 41/L74 aus Panther Bauteilen

This projekt "with Panther elements" was iniciated in november 1942. Its wasnt a Panther chassis exactly but a more longer one ( 1 meter) and had small changes in final transmition gears.

A thin plate of armor cover the gun mounting the and gunners/loaders, there was no top cover since it was fully exposed to the elements.

The Reinhmetall 8,8 Flak 41 was a extremely powerful weapon. It had an initial speed of 1000 meters per second and a stimated effective ceiling of 10700 meters. To improved the vehicle stability when its engaged targets and low elevation four outriggers were provided. These were deployed by a hidraulic means.

The open turret was fully traversible by hand and its can be elevated from -3 to 89º. The lower elevation allow the use of the Flak 41 as antitank gun.

Mockup at full elevation.

The waffeamnt stop the development of this panzer because they correctly feel that to protect an armored formation a fast fire medium caliber gun plataform was needed, and not a mobile heavy flak since this task could be cover with other means like towed guns and armored trains.

 

[Soren]

Here we go again, people acting like children.

Somehow it always involves Soren (don't worry Soren I am not blaming you for this one though, but you are still involved...).

How is that it always involves you Soren?

Did I act childish ? I just said it how it is, as usual. Guess some people can't take that.

As for why I'm supposedly always involved, well probably because I don't give in to arrogance and bullying, never have and never will.

 

[Soren]

Sorry, maybe I overreacted a bit.

Yeah I'd like to know why you acted like that ? Have I offended you somehow ? Have I ever called you something ?

I'm puzzled here...

 

[Airframes]

Thanks yet again Charles, especially for the 'action' pic and the profile. It brings it all together nicely, and would make a good subject for a model.
Terry.

 

[CharlesBronson]

I find another, well...not primarily aiming to this tank , but still you can see it at the end of this Churchill colunm. Despite the Churchill was specially designed for bad terrain the Panther had better mobility.