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That's what I said Soren!
Thinking about it though, German ammo wasn't that good;
The Jumbo was almost impervious to frontal attack, equal or even better than the KingTiger!! - though like the Churchill, lacking in offensive power.
Soren I believe several rounds hit Wittmann's Panzer as well as the other 3 Tiger 1's ? outside of Cintheux.
Frankly I still cannot see why Wittmann ordered up and approved this death ride out in that field... those chaps were sitting ducks
Care to prove it ? Wait, don't bother, cause you can't. Why ? Cause its untrue! British and German AP projectile were the best throughout WW2.
The Tiger Ausf.B's glacis is 150mm thick and sloped at 50 degrees from vertical, the Jumbo's glacis is 100mm thick and sloped at 47 degrees from vertical ! So as you can see the Tiger Ausf.B is enormously better protected from the front than the Jumbo, you can't even compare the two !
And since the Jumbo had a pea-shooter of a gun it was a Cow on the battlefield
Heck even the Tiger Ausf.E could take out the Jumbo frontally at a distance of 1km, just by aiming at the turret.
Just to show you how powerful AT and tank guns had become by 1944, I'll show you these pictures of Wittmann's Tiger Ausf.E which was hit by a AP round from a firefly's 17pdr tank gun, one of most powerful tank guns of WW2.
I agree, it was very unlike him to do such a thing, however since he had become such a propaganda figure over the past years leading up to his time of death, maybe he began feeling abit invincible, a big mistake on the battlefield.
Especially that produced by Oskar Schindler.
Yes, that was silly of me.- Though the Jumbo had 140mm @ the front in places and 114mm minimum.
The Jumbo's turrett was 152mm all round. 178mm on the Mantlet.
The ammo brewing up caused the damage, not the Sabot!
plan_D said:I don't think it was because of his status that Wittman thought he was invincible. It was the status of the Tiger, for many years Tiger crews had gone through battle knowing that the enemy would not be able to destroy them. Many forgot the basic principles of armoured warfare, and when 1944 rolled around this caused a lot of loss in the Tiger ranks because the Soviets and Allies had developed weapons that could destroy the Tiger.
I cannot remember where I read that, but I'm sure it's somewhere out there. And it seems reasonable to me. Since August 1942 the Tiger had been untouchable and I imagine if I were in such a machine, I wouldn't take into consideration the basic tactics of warfare. Why hide your tank when the enemy can't destroy it anyway?
Soren said:Just to show you how powerful AT and tank guns had become by 1944, I'll show you these pictures of Wittmann's Tiger Ausf.E which was hit by a AP round from a firefly's 17pdr tank gun, one of most powerful tank guns of WW2.
CharlesBronson said:Wittman had a damn bad luck , I see a lot of Panther, Tiger I and II being shooted several times in pics and videos, some set in fire and burn some not, but NONE of them had the horrific internal explosion that blew the turret in that SS Tiger 1.
plan_D said:I don't think it was because of his status that Wittman thought he was invincible. It was the status of the Tiger, for many years Tiger crews had gone through battle knowing that the enemy would not be able to destroy them. Many forgot the basic principles of armoured warfare, and when 1944 rolled around this caused a lot of loss in the Tiger ranks because the Soviets and Allies had developed weapons that could destroy the Tiger.
I cannot remember where I read that, but I'm sure it's somewhere out there. And it seems reasonable to me. Since August 1942 the Tiger had been untouchable and I imagine if I were in such a machine, I wouldn't take into consideration the basic tactics of warfare. Why hide your tank when the enemy can't destroy it anyway?
CharlesBronson said:Wittman had a damn bad luck , I see a lot of Panther, Tiger I and II being shooted several times in pics and videos, some set in fire and burn some not, but NONE of them had the horrific internal explosion that blew the turret in that SS Tiger 1.
Soren said:But the 17pdr was the Allies most effecient AT gun of the whole war, the equal of the German 75mm Kwk42,
and it would have very little problem turning a Tiger Ausf.E inside out if the round hit the right place.
Also, not to take anything from Wittman, but his claims were twice hat he actually killed and his most numerous victims by far were softskins and Bren carriers etc. Germany's Vasilly Zaitsev?
Have you seen the "Stubborn Emil" CharlesBronson? - Very similar to the "Dickermax" only 128mm
well..yeah there is 2 or 3 Panthers blew up in that link, but the Tiger I in there remain relative intact.
A Bren Carrier is a armored vehicle, small yes but armored probably it count in the final Wittman score of 138.
Henk said:I would feel unsafe in a open top tank destroyer.