Rare Crazy Panzer Projekts.
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Milos Sijacki
Senior Airman
Lots of weird and unusual designs, but the one that made my eyes pop out is this BALL tank, KUGELPANZER........ what the hell? It looks so alien.
Cheers
Cheers
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- #443
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
- Thread starter
- #444
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Selbstfahrlafette s.I.G.33/2 auf Bergepanzer 38 (t)
This AFV was the result of mounting a schwere Infanterie Geschutz ( heavy infantry support cannon) over an Bergepanzer 38 chassis.
Internal capacity for ammunition was merely 15 round with separate charge. Elevation varied from -2º up to 45º. Azimuth only 7 degrees at left and right.
The armor was reduced in the sides, from 20 to 12mm, probably to save some weight. Frontal plate was 30mm thick.
Automotive characteristics were the same as all late czech 38 (t) designs, with a 6 cilinders gasoline 150 hp engine and leaf spring suspensison with 2 bogies per side. Weight around 11,5 tons.
Despite the good aspect of this sturmgeschutz it did not manage to enter in service. Probably due the extreme cramped combat room. A single prototyte assembled by the Bohemische und Moravische Motorenwerke ( BMM Prague) in fall 1944.
This AFV was the result of mounting a schwere Infanterie Geschutz ( heavy infantry support cannon) over an Bergepanzer 38 chassis.
Internal capacity for ammunition was merely 15 round with separate charge. Elevation varied from -2º up to 45º. Azimuth only 7 degrees at left and right.
The armor was reduced in the sides, from 20 to 12mm, probably to save some weight. Frontal plate was 30mm thick.
Automotive characteristics were the same as all late czech 38 (t) designs, with a 6 cilinders gasoline 150 hp engine and leaf spring suspensison with 2 bogies per side. Weight around 11,5 tons.
Despite the good aspect of this sturmgeschutz it did not manage to enter in service. Probably due the extreme cramped combat room. A single prototyte assembled by the Bohemische und Moravische Motorenwerke ( BMM Prague) in fall 1944.
Frédéric GARNIER
Recruit
Hi every one, I'm new on this site, visiting for long but logged in at last ! 
I have a question about the VK 30.01 (H) - for Henschel - recently released by Trumpeter...
They have figured some kind of "air inlets" on both sides of hull, next to engine doors.
This model seems to be developped from a Hilary Louis Doyle profile but no picture to picture to be sure...
I even believe they didn't even know what it was supposed to be, because there's no grille nor air vents inside, only an empty case.
After a long wandering on the net, I found that these "air inlets cases" were on the VK 36.01 (H), not on the VK 30.01 !!
(VK 30.01(H) has overlapping road wheels and 3 return rollers on each side; VK 36.01 has also overlapping road wheels but NO returm rollers with makes it look like closer to serial Tiger).
Achtung Panzer! - Prototypes !
So here is my question : Does anyone has a picture of the rear part of a VK30.01 (H) prototype in order to be certain of the actual aspect of air inlets?
Thanks
I have a question about the VK 30.01 (H) - for Henschel - recently released by Trumpeter...
They have figured some kind of "air inlets" on both sides of hull, next to engine doors.
This model seems to be developped from a Hilary Louis Doyle profile but no picture to picture to be sure...
I even believe they didn't even know what it was supposed to be, because there's no grille nor air vents inside, only an empty case.
After a long wandering on the net, I found that these "air inlets cases" were on the VK 36.01 (H), not on the VK 30.01 !!
(VK 30.01(H) has overlapping road wheels and 3 return rollers on each side; VK 36.01 has also overlapping road wheels but NO returm rollers with makes it look like closer to serial Tiger).
Achtung Panzer! - Prototypes !
So here is my question : Does anyone has a picture of the rear part of a VK30.01 (H) prototype in order to be certain of the actual aspect of air inlets?
Thanks
- Thread starter
- #446
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
I think that I had already put some info about this 2 protos.
VK 30.01(H)
VK 36.01(H) with Waffe 0725
VK 30.01(H)
VK 36.01(H) with Waffe 0725
Frédéric GARNIER
Recruit
Now, its obvious that blueprints are wrong ! Thanks a lot !
But I suppose that Mr Doyle had any reference to draw that ...
What is it supposed to be if not air intakes ??? Moveable part such as toolbox?
On your 3rd pix, there are some kind of side opened doors on top of engine plate...
Witch doesn't match wich Trump engine compartment !
Still confusing...
But I suppose that Mr Doyle had any reference to draw that ...
What is it supposed to be if not air intakes ??? Moveable part such as toolbox?
On your 3rd pix, there are some kind of side opened doors on top of engine plate...
Witch doesn't match wich Trump engine compartment !
Still confusing...
- Thread starter
- #448
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Yes, the problem is the VK 30.01 never received its turret, so it was used for testing several experimental devices, so its is possible that the configuration of the rear engine could change. The only sure is that armored boxes at the side were not air intakes per se, however they maybe protecting an air inlet.
In this picture the turretless VK 30.01 is testing a bulldozer.
In this picture the turretless VK 30.01 is testing a bulldozer.
Frédéric GARNIER
Recruit
Note windshield instead of armored visor ! 8)
Thanks to Chris Just who shared his picture, at least one VK 30.01 (H) received a turret :
http://monsite.orange.fr/rubberarmor/images/1-picture3.jpg
It is supposed to be a training vehicle (final use of many prototypes...) but no info about date nor location.
I read that 4 hulls were mades in early 40 but turrets were not finished until mid-42.
This one also has no "side air box" but long unclear "rails" located there. Supposingly stuffs attached to mud guards....
Thanks to Chris Just who shared his picture, at least one VK 30.01 (H) received a turret :
http://monsite.orange.fr/rubberarmor/images/1-picture3.jpg
It is supposed to be a training vehicle (final use of many prototypes...) but no info about date nor location.
I read that 4 hulls were mades in early 40 but turrets were not finished until mid-42.
This one also has no "side air box" but long unclear "rails" located there. Supposingly stuffs attached to mud guards....
- Thread starter
- #450
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Nice photo Frédéric 8) , according to my sources all the turrets were placed in France for atlantic wall defenses, seems that at list one was in its designated place.
Frédéric GARNIER
Recruit
finaly I cutted out these side boxes...
SO, 4 hulls finised, 8 turret produced, 2 hulls transformed in Sfl. "Sturer Emil" 1 (for sure now!) used as training vehicle.
So 1 hull remains.. Maybe the one on your pictures used as bulldozer ?
VK 30.01 (H) air inlets
http://monsite.orange.fr/rubberarmor/images/2-picture1.jpg
http://monsite.orange.fr/rubberarmor/images/2-picture2.jpg
and with BIG(ER) nbrother VH 45.01 (P) :
http://monsite.orange.fr/rubberarmor/images/2-picture3.gif
Thanks for help !
SO, 4 hulls finised, 8 turret produced, 2 hulls transformed in Sfl. "Sturer Emil" 1 (for sure now!) used as training vehicle.
So 1 hull remains.. Maybe the one on your pictures used as bulldozer ?
VK 30.01 (H) air inlets
http://monsite.orange.fr/rubberarmor/images/2-picture1.jpg
http://monsite.orange.fr/rubberarmor/images/2-picture2.jpg
and with BIG(ER) nbrother VH 45.01 (P) :
http://monsite.orange.fr/rubberarmor/images/2-picture3.gif
Thanks for help !
- Thread starter
- #452
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Nice models, the Tiger Porsche is one that I dont like, however the VK 30.01 always look to me as an atractive tank. It was like a fat panzer IV, better suspension system and improved side armor.
MinenräumGerät Krupp mit PzKpfw IV antrieb.
In late 1940 Krupp was responsible for designing and testing a roller device for mine destroying purposes. It consisted in 3 heavy steel barrels attached to the Panzer IV tank by swingwing arms, every roller weighted in excess of 1,5 tons.
2 were emplaced at the front of the tank stepping ahead of the track paths and one in the rear, acting in the middle exploding any mine left active by the the front devices. The dispositive was strong and simple, but the Panzer was very difficult to steer with it and all the development was dropped in 1941.
MinenräumGerät Krupp mit PzKpfw IV antrieb.
In late 1940 Krupp was responsible for designing and testing a roller device for mine destroying purposes. It consisted in 3 heavy steel barrels attached to the Panzer IV tank by swingwing arms, every roller weighted in excess of 1,5 tons.
2 were emplaced at the front of the tank stepping ahead of the track paths and one in the rear, acting in the middle exploding any mine left active by the the front devices. The dispositive was strong and simple, but the Panzer was very difficult to steer with it and all the development was dropped in 1941.
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- Thread starter
- #453
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Leitche Panzerspähwagen Für Tropen.
On july 21 1941 the Waffenamt requested a design for a new armored car. This new panzerspähwagen ( armored recce vehicle) should be based in a shortened Sd.Kfz 234 chassis, using its same frontal and sides with a redesigned rear armor and engine compartiment and m,any commom parts as possible and practical.
As an adaptation for the western desert the vehicle had several ventilation ports, also its engine a brand new Tatra V910 diesel was air cooled intean using a more complicated ( and somewhat inconvenient in Libya) water coolant.
The main armament was an automatic k.w.K 38 20 mm gun and a coaxial Mg 34. The proyected weight was 7 tons and the panzerspähwagen should use a turret heavily based in the one of the Sd.Kfz 222, open top with antigrenade mesh screen.
Büssing Nag was awarded with an contract of 500 vehicles to be ready in 1943, however the low priority of the project and the lack of the new Czech engines demorated the design until 1943 , 2 prototipes were made, one in july 1942 and other in October 1943 . In that date Germany was already pushed out Afrika, The project was obviously cancelled, there was no more need of that vehicle.
Leitche Panzerspähwagen für Tropen
Type: Recce armored car for hot climates.
Armor: Max 30 mm min 10 mm
Engine: Diesel Tatra V910 V8 125 hp
Speed: 70 km/h
Weight: 6900kg
Crew: 4, commander, Gunner/loader, front driver and rear driver
On july 21 1941 the Waffenamt requested a design for a new armored car. This new panzerspähwagen ( armored recce vehicle) should be based in a shortened Sd.Kfz 234 chassis, using its same frontal and sides with a redesigned rear armor and engine compartiment and m,any commom parts as possible and practical.
As an adaptation for the western desert the vehicle had several ventilation ports, also its engine a brand new Tatra V910 diesel was air cooled intean using a more complicated ( and somewhat inconvenient in Libya) water coolant.
The main armament was an automatic k.w.K 38 20 mm gun and a coaxial Mg 34. The proyected weight was 7 tons and the panzerspähwagen should use a turret heavily based in the one of the Sd.Kfz 222, open top with antigrenade mesh screen.
Büssing Nag was awarded with an contract of 500 vehicles to be ready in 1943, however the low priority of the project and the lack of the new Czech engines demorated the design until 1943 , 2 prototipes were made, one in july 1942 and other in October 1943 . In that date Germany was already pushed out Afrika, The project was obviously cancelled, there was no more need of that vehicle.
Leitche Panzerspähwagen für Tropen
Type: Recce armored car for hot climates.
Armor: Max 30 mm min 10 mm
Engine: Diesel Tatra V910 V8 125 hp
Speed: 70 km/h
Weight: 6900kg
Crew: 4, commander, Gunner/loader, front driver and rear driver
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MacArther
Staff Sergeant
Going back to the Ratte for a second, couldn't the Germans just turned the whole thing into one big mobile Anti-Air station? One or two 88s, backed up by either heavier armament for specifically air targets, or lighter AA for low level targets.
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- #455
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
The best alternative to the Ratte were a heavy armored and armed panzerzug ( armored train). But I think due the air supremacy of the allies over France they never operated often outside Germany or the eastern front.
Ferngelenkt Minenräumwagen "Ente"
Ferngelenkt Minenräumwagen ( remote controlled mineclearing vehicle)
A curious variation of the Bordgward Sd.kfz 300 ( 2nd serie), it was a concrete chassis explosive carrier with an amphibious capacity. It had a external steel shell to create the bouyancy. This external plate was really thin, from 4 to 5mm of carbon steel wich did protect the Ente ( duck) only from small arms fire at 100 meters ( not including armor piercing rounds)
The Ente had a 55 hp 4 cilinders engine wich drive the tracks and used a propeller for water impulsion reaching 3 km/h in water and 6 km/h over ground. Only 2 prototipes were made in late 1940.
Good image of an Ente next to a Sd.kfz 300 II serie and pzklbfl 1.
Ferngelenkt Minenräumwagen "Ente"
Ferngelenkt Minenräumwagen ( remote controlled mineclearing vehicle)
A curious variation of the Bordgward Sd.kfz 300 ( 2nd serie), it was a concrete chassis explosive carrier with an amphibious capacity. It had a external steel shell to create the bouyancy. This external plate was really thin, from 4 to 5mm of carbon steel wich did protect the Ente ( duck) only from small arms fire at 100 meters ( not including armor piercing rounds)
The Ente had a 55 hp 4 cilinders engine wich drive the tracks and used a propeller for water impulsion reaching 3 km/h in water and 6 km/h over ground. Only 2 prototipes were made in late 1940.
Good image of an Ente next to a Sd.kfz 300 II serie and pzklbfl 1.
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Frédéric GARNIER
Recruit
... But I'm not sure that I correctly translate; the chassis was made of ..CONCRETE ???
And secondly I don't understand the real purpose of the machine...
"mine clearing" : concrete chassis (let's admit..) but with such ridiculous tracks ?
"explosive carrier" : delivering charge from the rear ? Or self exploding (so why concrete??) ?
Or was it supposed to clear minefields with explosion ??? Hazardous...
Not speaking of buoyancy of a concrete block !!
even wraped in a thin steel hull...
Anyway, very interresting history, any idea of actual use?
And secondly I don't understand the real purpose of the machine...
"mine clearing" : concrete chassis (let's admit..) but with such ridiculous tracks ?
"explosive carrier" : delivering charge from the rear ? Or self exploding (so why concrete??) ?
Or was it supposed to clear minefields with explosion ??? Hazardous...
Not speaking of buoyancy of a concrete block !!
even wraped in a thin steel hull... Anyway, very interresting history, any idea of actual use?
- Thread starter
- #457
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Yes it was concrete or cement. I think is ciment in french.
The chassis was cement and had a thin layer of armor in the outside. I guess the idea was saving steel in a vehicle wich going to be exploded in air anyway. The charge could be detonated simply rolling it over a minefield " by sympathy" or by radio control.
All the series of Borgward B1/Sd.kfz 300 had this same characteristic.
The chassis was cement and had a thin layer of armor in the outside. I guess the idea was saving steel in a vehicle wich going to be exploded in air anyway. The charge could be detonated simply rolling it over a minefield " by sympathy" or by radio control.
All the series of Borgward B1/Sd.kfz 300 had this same characteristic.
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- Thread starter
- #458
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Frédéric GARNIER
Recruit
Thanks !
Also interresting is that small tube at the rear (exhaust pipe?) with means thermic engine remote controled !
... in 1940 ! I'm really impressed !
By the way, "concrete" in french is "béton" like in german (in "betongranate")
Any idea for the purpose of that square protuding shape on top ?
Also interresting is that small tube at the rear (exhaust pipe?) with means thermic engine remote controled !
... in 1940 ! I'm really impressed !
By the way, "concrete" in french is "béton" like in german (in "betongranate")
Any idea for the purpose of that square protuding shape on top ?
- Thread starter
- #460
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Beton ?, merci...rare word, If I remember well Prussia used the French as auxiliary language, just like in Armee, same significance in the both languages.
Yes the Sd.kfz 300 used a "petrol" ( british expression for gasoline) 2 stroke engine. The boxy structure is an armored box for radio guiding equipment. I suppose it was placed in the top to avoid any flitration of water.
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