RCAF 409 nfs

[Erich]

I can be patient...........now to find the combat report(s) of the above RCAF crew that I first mentioned ......

417nfs crew shot down the Ju 290 mentioned on the December 44 date, but brick you probably have this info. Most likely the Ju 290A was on agent dropping mission(s)

 

[brickhistory]

A Keen 24 Year Old

Jack Roff became an aviation addict in 1927. The then 12 year old saw his first airplane when a yellow-painted floatplane conducting aerial surveys flew over his small town on the coast of British Columbia. From then on, he was hooked on anything related to flying.
As he grew up, however, the pressing needs of earning a living superseded his dream of flying. He worked at times as a lumberjack and in various factories for 15-30 cents per hour, glad frankly to have a job during the Depression. All that changed, however, in March 1939 when Jack spied an advertisement in the newspaper for young men to apply for RAF pilot training.
Taking the train to Ottawa, he was accepted for the program and was given a ticket to England. Jack and several other hopefuls were told that if they didn't make it into the RAF as flyers, their trip home would also be paid for.
After 12 hours in an Anson Cadet bi-plane, Jack was deemed as "unlikely to become a proficient service pilot." He was politely, but firmly, put out of the RAF's care. Asking about the "free trip home" he had been promised, no one in authority seemed to know anything about it. So Jack was stuck.
Fortunately, his RAF screening had been conducted near Coventry. With war imminent, it was now June 1939; many industries were gearing up to produce military equipment so jobs were plentiful. Jack worked for eight months before be able to head back to Canada in April 1941.
He enlisted in the RCAF that same month, hoping to become an observer. Also sharing the common experiences concerning ITS and navigation school as did the other RCAF flyers in this article, Jack did his time in navigation, bombing, and air gunnery courses. After seven months, he won his navigator wings and by February 1942 found himself in a two-ship convoy attended by tow destroyers, one brand new, one an old 'four stacker' borrowed from WWI surplus American stocks, bound for England.
Two hours after leaving Halifax harbor, the new destroyer was torpedoed and blew up and sank near the stern of Jack's transport. The other 'four stacker' soldiered on however, and the convoy proceeded. Jack says of this trip, "I was never so scared for the rest of my war!"
Obviously, Jack's ship made it to England where he and the other fledgling aircrew were placed in one of several manning depots. There he waited and waited. As mentioned in Bill Vincent's story of the massive buildup of heavy bomber squadrons, most of the airmen expected to go to Stirlings, Halifxes or Lancasters. Due to delays in new aircraft reaching squadrons, however, new aircrew languished for months sometimes waiting for a posting.
Jack escaped his purgatory by volunteering for a 'secret job.' He and several hundred other navigators were briefed of a need for volunteers for a "job with danger and full of action." The incentive was that the posting would be almost immediate. Almost to a man, the group stepped forward. So it was that Jack found himself sent off to A.I school in Scotland. Considered so secret at the time, Jack says he still has trouble speaking about it today. The RAF was still responding to the vital need to bolster its night defenses.
It was in Scotland that Jack first flew in a Beaufighter and learned to operate the A.I. radar, in his case the first really operational version, the Mk IV A.I. The Mk IV had several eccentricities that made it challenging for its operators. The Mk IV displayed target information on two separate scopes, one for height and one for range. In addition to extrapolating target intentions from both scopes, the Mk IV was hindered by its inability to blank out 'clutter' or interference caused by the radar waves reflecting from the earth's surface. The lower the Mk IV was to the surface, the more the two displays were swamped by interference. This problem was greatly reduced in later A.I. radars but for now, Jack just had to cope with the limitation.
Another early Beau quirk foisted on a navigator's shoulders was the necessity to manually reload the four 20 mm cannons. The breeches of the cannons were located just aft of the pilot and were fed by ammunition drums. Imagine ack-ack guns being fed by a gunner's assistant and one has a fair approximation of the job required. Now add in the fact that it is night and one's pilot, having emptied the guns at a target, is having to follow an alert, maneuvering enemy by throwing the Beaufighter around the sky. Not a fun job for the navigator at all! Thankfully, later Beau marks had automated ammunition feeds.
Jack was also posted to 409 Squadron in July 1942. For the next 18 months, he flew dozens of patrols, guarding Britain's skies from the Wash north to the Hebrides and over to Norway and the Skaggerat and chasing contacts over the North Sea. Too often, however, Jack's crew had to abandon the chase as the quarry made the safety of occupied territory. The RAF had issued strict instructions that A.I aircraft were NOT to be risked over enemy territory.
Recalling one situation where he was unable to help, he tells of a sortie to escort a group of Norwegian fishing boats making a dash to freedom across the North Sea. " We were at our limit for fuel when we found them and couldn't stick around. We found out later that the Jerries really worked them over soon after we left."
Jack really liked the strength of the Beaufighter. He recounted on experience of a crew returning from a sortie and losing its brakes. He says of the affected Beau, "It ran off the runway, through a stone wall and into a flock of sheep. It only required a couple of new props and it was back on operations."
Jack's first combat tour ended in May 1944. He went back to Canada for a rest and started another tour with No. 410 Squadron (RCAF) flying Mosquitoes in France.
He makes a comparison between the Beaufighter and De Havilland's product thusly, "The Mossy was a pretty bird. A different craft than the Beau, light and maneuverable with a better radar but a difficult kite to get out of in a hurry. The Beau was much more rugged and heavily armored, but not nearly as much fun to fly."

 

[Gnomey]

Interesting story, thanks for sharing.

 

[rafnav]

I realize this is an old thread , but my father was an engine mechanic in 409 Sq. in WW2. I can't remember the exact model of Mossie the used but it had the " bulb" radar nose.
There exists a photo of "A" for Able flying through the arch of the Eiffel Tower with very little clearance.

I have a copy of a photo of "A" Able flying thru the Eiffel Tower. It is signed by the late Bill Bryant RAF, an old friend of mine, who was the navigator of that aircraft piloted by Bob Boorman RCAF. The caption reads as follows" This Stars Stripes photograph was taken on 14 September 1944 and shows a Mosquito Mk XIII of 409 Squadron RCAF. Pilot - W/O Bob Boorman RCAF ,Navigator F/S Bill Bryant RAF Flying through the Eiffel Tower. How the picture came to be taken is another story told to me before Bill Bryant died!!!
Nic Shelley, Sqn Ldr RAF (Ret'd)

 

[Nightfighter]

rafnav .... good to hear from you , please post the photo if you can , and do tell us the story please !!!

 

[Erich]

yes please post the photo if you would sir when time permits

Erich ~

 

[mhuxt]

Lordy, yes, post post post!

 

[Airframes]

Agreed! That is one photo I'd DEFINITELY like to see!

 

[kenanrdk]

Saw some reference here to the Eiffel Tower shot from the WW2 scrapbook - does any one know the real story of "Could this be A for Able"??? (photo attached) OR perhaps some info about my Uncle, J. Deryck Hore-Kennard?? kit.kennard-AT-sympatico.ca

 

[Nightfighter]

Yes this is the same photo that appears in the 409 Squadron hard cover history book that was printed in late 1945 or 1946. Although I have not seen my father's book since my last visit several years ago , I do remember this photo very well. Thanks for posting it kenanrdk

 

[pbfoot]

I've read some where it was possibly a 410 bird

 

[3rd Generation Nighthawk]

Hi guys,
My names Matthew Bouchard. My grandfather was a Corporal in the 409 from 1941-45. I just got into doing some research. I was wondering if anyone had found a list from the squadron, seen his name, or anything. I assume he was ground crew. I have some pictures I could upload as well. Might be of some interest. Can anyone help me out?

 

[3rd Generation Nighthawk]

Oh, and does anyone know of anywhere in Montreal I could get a hand on that 409 Squadron history book?

 

[3rd Generation Nighthawk]

Oh and, of course his name was Marcel Bouchard, R. 73730.

 

[Wayne Forest Fisher]

I realize this is an old thread , but my father was an engine mechanic in 409 Sq. in WW2. I can't remember the exact model of Mossie the used but it had the " bulb" radar nose.
There exists a photo of "A" for Able flying through the arch of the Eiffel Tower with very little clearance.

I know this is an old post but I have a copy of the 409 WW II year book that has a great photo of flying under the Eiffel tower

 

[kenanrdk]

I found an original copy of the Journal documenting RCAF 409 in WWII - crew photos, aerial photos etc etc it's about 40 pages. This has been scanned in high resolution format. Please contact me if you require a copy. Includes COULD THIS BE A FOR ABLE. Contact me at kit.kennard-AT-sympatico.ca

 

[mhuxt]

Check email Kit.

 

[greatercaper]

Skim thanks for that. I see there might be a possibility that two Mossie members that I am looking into still live in Nova Scotia. If so may I send you a private with their phone numbers that you may contact them to see if this is a reality ? It might be just surviving familie only but then again the pilot and radar op could still be with us. The pilot in this case was an ace with 5 kills

My grandfather was the pilot of the mossie that night he had 2 kills on that night JU88s I do believe.

here is a link:

Ralph Britten

 

[DB999]

Hi, this thread stretches back some years, but this may be of interest regarding the 409 Squadron RCAF Mosquito photographed flying through the legs of the Eiffel Tower?

I'm the son of F/S Bill Bryant (navigator) who, flown by his pilot W/O Bob Boorman, was in the aircraft photographed. My father passed away a few years ago, after a happy and fulfilled life, but had told me at lhow this event came to take place.

The squadron had been the first nightfighter squadron into Europe after D-Day and had supported the Allied landforces' advances over the following weeks, moving from airfield to airfield in France and Belgium before crossing the Rhine.

One evening, after the liberation of Paris, the two men decided to enjoy an evening in the city and were enjoying (several) drinks in the Hotel Trocadéro when they were joined by a reporter and photographer from the Stars Stripes (US Forces) newspaper. After several more drinks, the Americans asked the flyers if they were planning to fly the next day, to which they replied that they were due to be on patrol over Paris the following morning.

The Americans then suggested that a shot of their aircraft flying between the legs of the Eiffel Tower, visible just a few hundred yards away, would make a good picture! After further discussions about wingspans and clearances while standing (unsteadily) on the balcony looking across at the Tower, Bob and Bill, slightly the worse for wear at this stage, agreed to give it a go! The Americans promised to be in place and, having taken their squadron details, bade them a good night.

The following morning, with somewhat sore heads, the two were flying over Paris when Bob asked Bill if he fancied taking up the challenge suggested the previous night. "You must be joking!" protested Bill. After further protests, he agreed that they ought to at least go and take a look. Flying around the Tower a few times, they agreed that there was in fact greater width and height than one might expect, and decided to go for it.

Bill told me that the flight through went without a hitch, but that they had got a shock as the hotel came quickly into full view and they had to pull up sharply to avoid ploughing straight into it at 250mph! (See a modern day view at https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...0x47e66ffb6657fd9d:0x1d5d0efffa176a12!6m1!1e1 )

They heard nothing from the two Americans for some time, as the squadron continued to move forward from airfield to airfield towards Germany. However, after a few weeks a brown-paper parcel caught up with them and it was opened to reveal the photo in question. The two men did not want their names publicly attributed to the event at the time as this would undoubtedly have been a court-marshal offence, but word soon got around unofficially. I also have a copy of the photo, inscribed as has been previously mentioned by one of dad's former Aircrew Association colleagues (whom I hope is still with us!), on my study wall in front of me as I type.

Best wishes to all former wartime members of 409 – it would be wonderful to hear from any although I suspect almost all have gone on to 'touch the face of God' by now. Kindest regards to all relatives of these heroes too.

[See RCAF Squadron 409: The Nighthawks for a copy of the 409's wartime story, published soon after the war. Lots of excellent photos, including the Eiffel Tower one, and plenty of information.]

 

[kenanrdk]

Mr. Bryant (DB999) -

Thanks very much for this

The RCAF 409 Nighthawks 1941-1945 on AirCrew Remembered http://www.aircrewremembered.com/Nighthawks/nighthawksstory.html has very recently been published and made text searchable from the original that I submitted from a copy held by by my Aunt Pat, widow of Flt./Lt. J. Deryck Hore-Kennard J.9309

I am currently wiring an Appendix and will include your backgrounder in it . GREAT stuff. Do you have any other published references or official records to use? I contacted the Stars and Stripes archive in Washington DC, they had nothing. Assuming, of course that they looked hard enough !!

If you or anyone else has related background for the Appendix I would be very glad to see it. This and related family history in published on KITKENNARD.COM

Kit Kennard