- Thread starter
- #101
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Well, not exactly a copy but very much inspired. 8)
Rifles and Machineguns of WW2
- Thread starter CharlesBronson
- Start date
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I am fairly sure it is a copy, if it isn't it is very closely related to it, sort of an evolution of it...
schwarzpanzer
Senior Airman
- 662
- Aug 8, 2005
The AK is not an StG copy!
The concept is the same.
A rough history of Assault Rifles:
Cei-Rigotti = Italian, turn of Century, 6.5mm full power, gas-operated, 25 round box mag, 900rpm, innacurate, not adopted.
Fedorov Avtomat = Russian, 1916, 6.5mm intermediate round (later converted to Jap Arisaka full-power), gas-operated, versions similar to AKSU RPK, used in WW1 and Red Revolution - but not adopted.
MKb42/MP43/MP44/StG44 = German, 1942-45, 7.92 intermediate round (KurzPatrone), gas-operated, adopted at squad-section level and intended to replace SMG's LMG's and Rifles, too little too late.
AK47 = Russian, 1949-present, 7.62 intermediate round, gas-operated, adopted by Soviets and just about everyone else!
Borrowed feaures from PPK44 and M1 Garand, but not StG44 as everyone thinks (but was influenced by it and the MP40 Schmeisser).
Hugo Schmeisser more or less directly responsible for AKM and AK47S/AKMS upgrades.
The concept is the same.
A rough history of Assault Rifles:
Cei-Rigotti = Italian, turn of Century, 6.5mm full power, gas-operated, 25 round box mag, 900rpm, innacurate, not adopted.
Fedorov Avtomat = Russian, 1916, 6.5mm intermediate round (later converted to Jap Arisaka full-power), gas-operated, versions similar to AKSU RPK, used in WW1 and Red Revolution - but not adopted.
MKb42/MP43/MP44/StG44 = German, 1942-45, 7.92 intermediate round (KurzPatrone), gas-operated, adopted at squad-section level and intended to replace SMG's LMG's and Rifles, too little too late.
AK47 = Russian, 1949-present, 7.62 intermediate round, gas-operated, adopted by Soviets and just about everyone else!
Borrowed feaures from PPK44 and M1 Garand, but not StG44 as everyone thinks (but was influenced by it and the MP40 Schmeisser).
Hugo Schmeisser more or less directly responsible for AKM and AK47S/AKMS upgrades.
loomaluftwaffe
Tech Sergeant
- 1,840
- Dec 20, 2005
had the StG been in the wehrmacht as early as the garand was with the Yanks, .... war would have prolonged?
schwarzpanzer
Senior Airman
- 662
- Aug 8, 2005
I honestly don't know.
The Garand's entry date can be controversial, as it was officially adopted in '37 I think - but was still not exactly sufficient as to be called 'standard issue' in '41.
Hitler was very much opposed to the MKb/StG himself, Goering was the one who blocked the Me262 I think?
Also Goering developed the FG42 almost purely to annoy the Heer with it's G41 MKb42, though it was a useful weapon.
This infighting made Hitler doubly sure it wouldn't be adopted.
I at 1st thought that having yet another ammo type would cause problems, but now I think I was wrong. I'm sure this thought will have occured to the Minister of Armaments or Hitler.
The Garand's entry date can be controversial, as it was officially adopted in '37 I think - but was still not exactly sufficient as to be called 'standard issue' in '41.
Hitler was very much opposed to the MKb/StG himself, Goering was the one who blocked the Me262 I think?
Also Goering developed the FG42 almost purely to annoy the Heer with it's G41 MKb42, though it was a useful weapon.
This infighting made Hitler doubly sure it wouldn't be adopted.
I at 1st thought that having yet another ammo type would cause problems, but now I think I was wrong. I'm sure this thought will have occured to the Minister of Armaments or Hitler.
loomaluftwaffe
Tech Sergeant
- 1,840
- Dec 20, 2005
an FG42 could actually be a LMG
Desert Fox
Senior Airman
Well, id have to say that the MG42 was much better. Also, many more were produced. The Germans had the industry to produce thousands of weapons, maybe not THE best of the war, but they had quantity and counts towards a lot in a war.
loomaluftwaffe
Tech Sergeant
- 1,840
- Dec 20, 2005
the MG42 was a modified MG34 for ease of production and maintenance
- Thread starter
- #109
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Mauser K-98K with ZF-39
http://media.putfile.com/mauser_m41b
Moisin Nagant sniper M1891/30 with 3,5x PU scope.
http://media.putfile.com/mosin_nagant_9130_pu
http://media.putfile.com/mauser_m41b
Moisin Nagant sniper M1891/30 with 3,5x PU scope.
http://media.putfile.com/mosin_nagant_9130_pu
elmilitaro
Senior Airman
Nice videos.
Joe2
Banned
Where are all the British guns????
Should there be any?
Not saying that there should not. There were many great British weapons of WW2 but why dont you discuss which ones and why to get the conversation going rather than asking where they are?
Not saying that there should not. There were many great British weapons of WW2 but why dont you discuss which ones and why to get the conversation going rather than asking where they are?
102first_hussars
Tech Sergeant
My favorite British weapon would have to be the Lee Enfield no.4 rifle, in Cadets thats all we ever used but it was such a fun rifle to use
I like the Lee Enfield just dont think it was the best compared to other weapons of WW2.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Lee Enfield Mk III. A great weapon for its ruggedness and ability to manipulate the bolt for inefilade fire by multiple troops. While some of the Mauser supporters are exactly right about it being a great gun, the Enfield served the Empire more than admirably for numerous decades.
I noticed that some have made claims that the Garand was underpowered, compared to other WWII rifles. This is incorrect, as the Garand utilized a cartridge that was ballistically equivalent to the 8X57, .303 and other .30+ cartriges fielded in rifle and machine guns of warring nations. Perhaps the confusion existes between the Garand and Carbine. The Garand fired the .30-06 (165gr bullet at about 2800ft/sec). The Carbine fires the .30 Carbine (110gr bullet at about 1900ft/sec).
I own various versions of all three. But the Enfield just speaks volumes for what most consider an ugly rifle.
I noticed that some have made claims that the Garand was underpowered, compared to other WWII rifles. This is incorrect, as the Garand utilized a cartridge that was ballistically equivalent to the 8X57, .303 and other .30+ cartriges fielded in rifle and machine guns of warring nations. Perhaps the confusion existes between the Garand and Carbine. The Garand fired the .30-06 (165gr bullet at about 2800ft/sec). The Carbine fires the .30 Carbine (110gr bullet at about 1900ft/sec).
I own various versions of all three. But the Enfield just speaks volumes for what most consider an ugly rifle.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
she's a beauty! but as far as British weapons why not mention the Lewis gun? i believe chezk in origin (so i can't spell 
) but we made it what it was..........
) but we made it what it was..........
Matt308
Glock Perfection
I'm less familiar with the Lewis gun. But I do know, that the very first post of the "Ma Duece" is actually a .30 Browning. Model 1919 if I'm not mistaken. But still VERY cool. You can buy these now, though they have been civilianized for semi-auto only. They run about $2,000 minus tripod.
I own several K98 Mausers and have fired several of them. I love the gun to shoot. I do not think she was best gun of the war though. I think the Garand and the K98 were the best of there class in the war with the Garand having the edge.
The best small arms though of WW2 in my opinion was the Sturmgewehr 44
The best small arms though of WW2 in my opinion was the Sturmgewehr 44
Matt308
Glock Perfection
It certainly was innovative. The precursor of the "assault rifle" of today and the SKS/AK-47. It is my understanding that during the Gulf War, lots of StG44 were found in Iraqi hands during sweeps. Now how cool would that be for a war trophy. Some of the pics that I saw, they were in about NRA 10%-30% condition, but what a piece of history.
Claims are that the StG44 would have made a bigger difference in the war if they had more of them and issued them to more of the regular troops (as opposed to SS).
I love the Garand. But Godd@mn I hate the 8rd en bloc clip. What a pain the @ss. You can't top up. And it makes one hell of a racket when you run out of ammo and the thing "sproings" 10 ft into the air screaming "Shoot me! I have to reload!".
Now an M-14. That's what I'm talking about! [ref my avatar]
Claims are that the StG44 would have made a bigger difference in the war if they had more of them and issued them to more of the regular troops (as opposed to SS).
I love the Garand. But Godd@mn I hate the 8rd en bloc clip. What a pain the @ss. You can't top up. And it makes one hell of a racket when you run out of ammo and the thing "sproings" 10 ft into the air screaming "Shoot me! I have to reload!".
Now an M-14. That's what I'm talking about! [ref my avatar]
