Not just Russian a month ago I I watched a programe about submarines in the cold war, a British hunter killer sub went right into the Russian fleet and photographed the propeller of the newly commissioned Kiev class carrier, they also got the sound print which was the real mission. Its all cat and mouse.
Since this is an international forum,any concern about whats going on in the Ukraine?
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Not just Russian a month ago I I watched a programe about submarines in the cold war, a British hunter killer sub went right into the Russian fleet and photographed the propeller of the newly commissioned Kiev class carrier, they also got the sound print which was the real mission. Its all cat and mouse.
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
think we are seeing the New and Improved Cold War....part II. its going to be more of an economic and cyber war than the traditional iron curtian. russia is making moves to build a community of trading partners ( the new russian bloc ). they recently bought the state owned ( and the only producer ) natural gas company of Kyrgyzstan and has a bid to by all or most of the airports. it has increased pressure on the country to join its trade organization. talk about selling your enemy the rope which he will linch you with... the us will pull out of there completely by the summers end so the soviets ( yes i will call them that ) who maintain a military presence there isnt leaving. with putin trying to insulate himself from the rest of the worlds economy is he trying to set up his version of the EU?
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"....Here I thought the cold war was over…"
History is never over ..... we were all taught that the war with Islam was over .... well we know better don't we.
MM
History is never over ..... we were all taught that the war with Islam was over .... well we know better don't we.
MM
The English are still waiting to avenge Hastings in 1066.
The optimism of the fall of the Belin wall has given way to the sad Realisation that a Group like connuist Russias leaders dont go away just Morph into a new threat.
parsifal
Colonel
I recall my expereiences with this sort of thing. In 1980 the USSR invaded Afghanistan and the world thought Pakistan was next on the menu. My ship HMAS Melbourne, along with other ships deployed to the ocean area south of Pakistan where we came in for some intensive treatement at the hands of the Soviets, both at sea and in the air. It was intense, so inmy book, this is not a new phenomenon.
The West used to do it to the Soviets as well. They used to hate being tagged outside Vladivostck and having their cavitation signatures recorded by our oberon subs.
Its all part of the game fellas. By both sides.
The West used to do it to the Soviets as well. They used to hate being tagged outside Vladivostck and having their cavitation signatures recorded by our oberon subs.
Its all part of the game fellas. By both sides.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
6 RCAF F-18s going to the Eastern Front -- likely Poland.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
I wonder when the A-10's will be shipped there.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
There's also talk about NATO supplements in Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia as well. It appears that Germany will provide these aircraft.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"....I wonder when the A-10's will be shipped there...."
Ironic that .... designed for defense of The Gap against Warsaw Pact forces on the move .... going home to cold war Europe
"... It appears that Germany will provide these aircraft."
Germany took easy ground as a NATO assignment, IMCO,
, in Af'stan ... on this one Germany needs to step up big ... and take up positions in Western Ukraine .... the Germans will be welcomed in Western Ukraine.
Germany needs to speak to Vlad as a large Russian-energy customer who is concerned about their supply chain integrity.
Ironic that .... designed for defense of The Gap against Warsaw Pact forces on the move .... going home to cold war Europe
"... It appears that Germany will provide these aircraft."
Germany took easy ground as a NATO assignment, IMCO,
, in Af'stan ... on this one Germany needs to step up big ... and take up positions in Western Ukraine .... the Germans will be welcomed in Western Ukraine. Germany needs to speak to Vlad as a large Russian-energy customer who is concerned about their supply chain integrity.
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- #150
fastmongrel
1st Sergeant
Germany needs to speak to Vlad as a large Russian-energy customer who is concerned about their supply chain integrity.
There is a large German Gas contract coming up for renewal soon and Russias rivals in the LNG business are lining up to get into the German market with Algeria and Qatar in the lead. Vlad needs cash pumped into the economy at a steady rate to keep Russia running, no gas money and all those nice Mercedes might have to go back to the dealers.
parsifal
Colonel
I realized today, this is not the first time in recent history that the west has clashed with Russia over the Crimea
To quote someone famous.....a little ditty by a man called Tennyson
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
"Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.
Flash'd all their sabres bare,
Flash'd as they turn'd in air,
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder'd:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro' the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel'd from the sabre stroke
Shatter'd and sunder'd.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro' the jaws of Death
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honor the charge they made,
Honor the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred.
To quote someone famous.....a little ditty by a man called Tennyson
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
"Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.
Flash'd all their sabres bare,
Flash'd as they turn'd in air,
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder'd:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro' the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel'd from the sabre stroke
Shatter'd and sunder'd.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro' the jaws of Death
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honor the charge they made,
Honor the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"....I realized today, this is not the first time in recent history that the west has clashed with Russia over the Crimea.."
Harry Flashman comes to mind ....
https://www.google.ca/search?q=Harr...ome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=119&ie=UTF-8
Harry Flashman comes to mind ....
https://www.google.ca/search?q=Harr...ome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=119&ie=UTF-8
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
A couple news features I read (don't have the links handy on this ipad) showed evidence that a number of the "seperatists" are Russian Special forces. Some were even identified as participating in the conflict with Georgia, too.
Another news piece reported that U.S. Army will start positioning units in Eastern Europe on a rotational basis, assisting each of those countries with training and establishing a visible presence in the region.
Another news piece reported that U.S. Army will start positioning units in Eastern Europe on a rotational basis, assisting each of those countries with training and establishing a visible presence in the region.
parsifal
Colonel
that might be bad. Rightly or wrongly, the Russian leadership still view Eastern Europe as their sphere of influence. Perhaps not the countries outside the former USSR, but certainly those countries that were formerly under their control. If the US start to project their forces and influence into the region any further than they are, they are playing a very dangerous game. this is Cuban missile crisis allover again, but in reverse.
The Russians are motivated and serious about this issue, and they wont brook any ducks and drakes games from the Americans, I am sure.
I disagree with how Putin is going about this, but not what his point actually is.
If the Yanks are going to do this, they had better be prepared for a full scale conflict with the Russians. Maybe no WW3, but still on a scale like Iraq. It WILL be ugly.
The Russians are motivated and serious about this issue, and they wont brook any ducks and drakes games from the Americans, I am sure.
I disagree with how Putin is going about this, but not what his point actually is.
If the Yanks are going to do this, they had better be prepared for a full scale conflict with the Russians. Maybe no WW3, but still on a scale like Iraq. It WILL be ugly.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Well, Putin would see any country, especially a western nation, as provocation.
Actually, he would even consider resistance by Ukranian forces as provocation.
He is alot like Uncle Joe in the respect that he will have is way, or else.
He may end up getting alot more than he bargained for...
Actually, he would even consider resistance by Ukranian forces as provocation.
He is alot like Uncle Joe in the respect that he will have is way, or else.
He may end up getting alot more than he bargained for...
michaelmaltby
Colonel
Meanwhile ... in other news:
Russians Inspect Montana Nuclear Launch Facilities - ABC News
Russia didn't honor the Budapest Accord on Ukrainian nukes ... why would the US honor this .... under the circumstances
Russians Inspect Montana Nuclear Launch Facilities - ABC News
Russia didn't honor the Budapest Accord on Ukrainian nukes ... why would the US honor this .... under the circumstances
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- #158
Glider
Captain
I can see this ending up with an economic war fought behind the scenes. Already the bond markets are closed to the Russian Banks and they totally failed to sell anything in the last bond auction at any price. Even Greece were able to sell some bonds
This may seem small but without this Russia cannot pay their debts. Granted they could simply stop paying but the problem then is that no one will ever lend to them again. They could nationalise foreign investments but then you have the same problem, no one will invest there for decades.
Also given that the USA will soon be and may already be self sufficient in oil they could drive the price of oil down to a level where Russia will collapse as they did when the wall came down.
Obama may be getting some stick for his perceived lack of response but the economic action is having a significant impact. Given that no one will go to war to support a non NATO country there is little more that he can do. Its a version of the talk quietly and carry a big stick but these days the stick is economic measures not numbers of aircraft and tanks
This may seem small but without this Russia cannot pay their debts. Granted they could simply stop paying but the problem then is that no one will ever lend to them again. They could nationalise foreign investments but then you have the same problem, no one will invest there for decades.
Also given that the USA will soon be and may already be self sufficient in oil they could drive the price of oil down to a level where Russia will collapse as they did when the wall came down.
Obama may be getting some stick for his perceived lack of response but the economic action is having a significant impact. Given that no one will go to war to support a non NATO country there is little more that he can do. Its a version of the talk quietly and carry a big stick but these days the stick is economic measures not numbers of aircraft and tanks
Well said but if the Russian people start to suffer who will Vlad blame? I think it is progressing beyond facts being important, it is how things seem. look how well Mugabe has done dragging his country into the mire while all the time blaming ex colonial forces.
