Depends on whats doing the freedom enforcing.
The best sounds of freedom are when those 701s start coming to life on a 60, and you smell that burning jet fuel.
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Depends on whats doing the freedom enforcing.
The best sounds of freedom are when those 701s start coming to life on a 60, and you smell that burning jet fuel.
- Thread starter
- #1,722
When I was working at Buckley AFB I found a spot near the runway to watch F16s and the occasional F35 doing their thing. I found the F35 to be slightly louder. Think the F16 jockeys enjoyed flying around low in the pattern setting off car alarms everywhere.
Yep everyone wants to join the club. The last year (or so) alone:
Jun 2021 - Switzerland announces plans to buy 36 F-35s
Dec 2021 - Thailand expresses interest
Dec 2021 - Finland announces plan to buy 64 F-35s
Mar 2022 - Germany announces plan to buy 35 F-35s
Mar 2022 - Canada announces plan to buy 88 F-35s
Jun 2022 - Greece announces plan to buy 20 F-35s
Jul 2022 - Czech Republic announces plan to buy 24 F-35s
Over 800 delivered so far
Jun 2021 - Switzerland announces plans to buy 36 F-35s
Dec 2021 - Thailand expresses interest
Dec 2021 - Finland announces plan to buy 64 F-35s
Mar 2022 - Germany announces plan to buy 35 F-35s
Mar 2022 - Canada announces plan to buy 88 F-35s
Jun 2022 - Greece announces plan to buy 20 F-35s
Jul 2022 - Czech Republic announces plan to buy 24 F-35s
Over 800 delivered so far
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
It's ironic that they likes of Sprey and others refer to Boyd when one considers that the F-35 perfectly exemplifies the use of his OODA Loop. Thanks to its mix of sensors, information fusion and low observability, the F-35 pilot not only is able to Observe the enemy first, they are able to Orientate themselves without being seen and then Decide (supported by more information) faster before finally Acting - all faster then their enemy.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
And I find folks like that still living in an analog world, wearing flower shirts and polyester pants and dancing to the Bee Gees!
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Like all aircraft, it depended on the aspect you were hearing them from, and their flight regime. At low speeds/high AOA it was silent, almost; but when it went ballistic from 300' AGL everyone a mile away knew it.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
It really exemplifies the 80s phrase "first-look, first-shot, first-kill", I think.
I was a naysayer ten or twelve years ago, but as I've learnt more about the platform I've changed from selling to buying the idea. The data linkage alone is a big force-multiplier.
Hey, back off, man! I resemble that remark! Or it's pistols at twenty paces tomorrow at dawn.
buffnut453
Captain
Probably water pistols given the flower shirts and polyester pants (peace, love, dope....man!).
Where have we heard this song before? Three generations ago and from the same company, no less?
Those that fail to learn from history....It's almost like everything is all part of Lockheeds plan. Everything including the Ukraine War. All to increase sales…
F...ing A!! Yesterday two of them came over the Tractor Supply where I work occaisonally, less than 3K AGL, burners lit, maneuvering in what looked an awful lot like a low altitude BFM engagement. One appeared to be chasing the other, who appeared to be trying to evade. Shattering noise that made the ground tremble, and if they were complying with <250Kt below 10K FAR, then I'm a fried potato. Looked more like 350.They are obnoxiously loud aren't they?
Every base I go to, people always curse them.
I spent four years living cheek by jowl with F4Bs and Js, as well as RA5Cs, and this was another whole level on the Richter Scale.
PS: After they overflew us, they went ripping right through what used to be our primary flight training practice area before the flight school shut down. GA is practically dead around here, anyway.
- Thread starter
- #1,732
IBM had an education center in Marrietta and the hotel was in the flight path of Cobb AFB. Phantoms had to be the loudest, Galaxies blocked the sun
My barracks room was 100 yards from the approach end of the southeast-facing runway at our base. The morning seabreeze usually favored that runway, so the first three syllabus hops and any hotpad scrambles lit off their J79 burners, four at a time in my backyard. Section formation takeoffs with minimum interval between sections were the norm. I'm intimately familiar with Phantoms and Vigilantes and their noise, and in my experience the F35 is a quantum leap greater in the decibel department.
I was startled and dismayed by the low altitude shenanigans I saw last week. Our Air Guard is more professional than that. Come to find out, they had a visiting detachment of F35s from some squadron out west who apparently had "cowboy" ingrained in their DNA. Set our Air Guard's PR back about a century or so.
Token
Senior Airman
I think we have been down this road before, "missiles means you don't have to do dogfight". Didn't the losses as a result of that line of thought end up with the implementation of both the FWS and Topgun specifically to get back to ACM basic skills?
Missiles are great, but they are not infallible...and you have a limited number. Radar missiles (essentially all long range missiles) are more expensive and more fallible than IR / imaging seekers. That means you still sometimes end up having to get in (relatively) close to get the shot. And sometimes the mission just makes you go someplace you don't want, be it self escorting into a target area or some kind of CAS, close range ACM is going to happen, even in the modern battlespace.
T!
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Yes and no - it was thought that missiles only would be the "end all" to dogfighting, the issues were the ROEs (Vietnam to be specific)
Agree but I believe in this modern era you have way more accuracy and reliability - look up the aerial engagements from the Gulf War on, well over 90% of the air to air kills were done with missiles and I can only think of maybe 2 engagements where the mission took a turn and the close in knife fight was undertaken.
cvairwerks
Staff Sergeant
And there was at least one air-to-air kill with an LGB....
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
The F-15E that bombed a helo?
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
That time an F-15E shot down an Iraqi Mi-24 attack helicopter with a 2000lb laser-guided bomb - The Aviation Geek Club
That time an F-15E shot down an Iraqi Mi-24 attack helicopter with a 2000lb laser-guided bomb
theaviationgeekclub.com
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The USAF and USN have pilots go through BFM (basic fighter maneuvers) within the ACM (advanced combat maneuvering) instruction.
"ACM" is literally modern dogfighting.
Even A-10 pilots go through this instruction.
The whole idea is to work into an advantage over your opponent whether you're using missiles or cannon (F-16, F-15, F-18, A-10, F-22, F-35, etc.).
"ACM" is literally modern dogfighting.
Even A-10 pilots go through this instruction.
The whole idea is to work into an advantage over your opponent whether you're using missiles or cannon (F-16, F-15, F-18, A-10, F-22, F-35, etc.).
Measure vs counter-measure. IFF is subject to a constantly evolving arms race, as are all other airborne technologies. Very few of the kills mentioned above were between equivalent generation systems of major world super powers. Most were achieved by higher tech aircraft with more proficient crews against lower tech/older generation aircraft, often with less experienced/proficient crews. Lessons drawn from such data don't necessarily apply to a hypothetical major power conflict involving same generation opponents. The eyes still have it.
The knife fight in a phone booth is always a potential scenario, and the N Vietnam scene, with its heavy dependence on vulnerable AWACS aircraft and nearby tankers is less viable in this world of ultra long range SAMs and AAMs.
