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Actually, after you subtract the pilot who stayed in the USA, we are likely up to something, at example, 8 or 9%So, just over 7.1% of the pilots who graduated as single-engine pilots scored all the U.S. aerial victories in WWII. Of course, when you subtract the pilots who stayed in the U.S.A. to train others (unknown number at this time), we are likely down to something like 4 or 5% of our pilots who scored all the aerial victories.
we have 7,342 pilots amassing 15,865.85 aerial victories. That's about 2.1 victories per pilot who scored a victory.
USAF STATISTICS for the USAF Statistical Digests. For things like Korean operations. Like all these compilations figuring out what the definitions are is key. The 8th Air Force reports it launched 341,744 heavy bomber sorties, which became 329,664 sorties after removing airborne spares and abandoned operations, resulting in 300,679 credit sorties and 276,365 effective sorties, of these bombing raids were 330,866 sorties, 318,793 sorties after removing airborne spares and abandoned operations 293,919 credit sorties, 266,872 effective sorties. Heavy bombers were also used in carpet bagger, trucking, night leaflet, RCM, "special", ASR, Scouting, Aphrodite/Batty and Weather reconnaissance. The statistical digest has 332,904 heavy bomber sorties airborne, 274,921 effective.
CARL, Ike Skelton Combined Arms Research Library Digital Library.
Fedden Mission Part_1
British Bombing Survey Unit World War II Operational Documents
US War Production Board report World War II Operational Documents
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Year | Army | Navy | Marines | Coast Guard | Total |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
1939 | 189,839 | 125,202 | 19,432 | 334,473 | |
1940 | 269,023 | 160,997 | 28,345 | 458,365 | |
1941 | 1,462,315 | 284,427 | 54,359 | 1,801,101 | |
1942 | 3,075,608 | 640,570 | 142,613 | 56,716* | 3,915,507 |
1943 | 6,994,472 | 1,741,750 | 308,523 | 151,167 | 9,195,912 |
1944 | 7,994,750 | 2,981,365 | 475,604 | 171,749 | 11,623,468 |
1945 | 8,267,958 | 3,380,817 | 474,680 | 85,783 | 12,209,238 |
Does your number "...102,907 single-engine pilots..." include P-38, P-61, and P-70 pilots?I posted some number a few days ago that I have discovered are a bit off in one area. I said we had 13,321 pilots who scored 15,865.852 aerial victories in WWII. But what we REALLY had was 13,321 records of victory awards, many to the same pilot. The total number of different pilots who scored a victory or at least a shared victory is 7,342. So, we have 7,342 pilots amassing 15,865.85 aerial victories. That's about 2.1 victories per pilot who scored a victory.
I was curious about the number of pilots we trained, so I checked the Statistical Digest of WWII. This is USAAF only, and does not include Navy or Marines. For Jul 39 through Aug 45, we graduated 102,907 single-engine pilots in the U.S.A. and we accepted 100,554 fighters from 1940 through Aug 45, so we have a ratio of just over 1 pilot per fighter during WWII. Some of these pilots stayed in the U.S.A and trained other pilots. I do not know the numbers.
So, just over 7.1% of the pilots who graduated as single-engine pilots scored all the U.S. aerial victories in WWII. Of course, when you subtract the pilots who stayed in the U.S.A. to train others (unknown number at this time), we are likely down to something like 4 or 5% of our pilots who scored all the aerial victories.
At any one time, the numbers of crews overseas in any single month between Jun 43 and Aug 45 amounted to the following:
1. P-38: 820 to 1,966. Averaged about 1,500 for 44/45. About 600 for most of 44 in ETO; about 250 and dropping in 45 in ETO. About 320 in 44 and 400 in 45 for MTO. These theaters had more than the rest of the theaters … until VE Day, anyway.
2. P-39: Unknown
3. P-40: Unknown.
4. P-47: 379 to 4,885. Averaged about 4,000 for most of 44/45. About 2,500 in 44/45 in ETO. About 450 / 500 in 44 and 450 and dropping in 45 for MTO.
5. P-51: 216 to 4,005. Averaged about 2,500 for 44 and about 3,800 for most of 45. About 1,500 in 44 and 1,800 in 45 for ETO. Started out at about 150 up to about 500 in 44 and about 550 and dropping in 45 for MTO.
6. F-4/F-5: 141 to 838.
7. F-6: 73 to 562.
Nothing startling in these data, and no conclusions, just passing along the statistics and hoping to get people interested in looking at the Statistical Digest of WWII. Find it attached as a pdf.
The key for me isThey are merely breaking out sorties that didn't see the target and had to return to base or abort due to weather or mechanical or navigational errors in solid IFR weather. Spares were just launching more planes that the raid was scheduled for in order to have the correct numbers when aborts happened.
Years ago when I worked for large corporations, in the discussions about the qualities of the teams, I estimated that 7% was the share of people who could actively support new projects and big changes in a company, who were interested in something "risky" ,beyond the daily routine. It was not "scientific" , just based on personal experience and on some studies.So, just over 7.1% of the pilots who graduated as single-engine pilots scored all the U.S. aerial victories in WWII.
Dimlee,Years ago when I worked for large corporations, in the discussions about the qualities of the teams, I estimated that 7% was the share of people who could actively support new projects and big changes in a company, who were interested in something "risky" ,beyond the daily routine. It was not "scientific" , just based on personal experience and on some studies.
Not a magic number and a pure coincidence, of course. Yet I still keep that number in mind when I look for people for something extraordinary in our business.
The key for me is
The 8th Air Force reports 341,744 heavy bomber sorties, 266,872 effective sorties.
The statistical digest has 332,904 heavy bomber sorties, 274,921 effective.
So different definitions or sources.
Years ago when I worked for large corporations, in the discussions about the qualities of the teams, I estimated that 7% was the share of people who could actively support new projects and big changes in a company, who were interested in something "risky" ,beyond the daily routine. It was not "scientific" , just based on personal experience and on some studies.
Not a magic number and a pure coincidence, of course. Yet I still keep that number in mind when I look for people for something extraordinary in our business.
Doesn't the SD list by 'Total' and by 'Theater'?The Statistical Digest of WWII is the entire USAAF, not just the 8th AF in the ETO
There are published works like Mighty Eighth War Diary by Roger Freeman, the heavy bomber raids spreadsheets by Richard Davis, and all the various bomb etc., group web sites that have lots of details, but they are not so active these days. After that comes the files at the US Air Force Historical Research Agency at Maxwell Air Force Base, for things like the daily, weekly, monthly etc. reports. Next is probably the British archives, as the US sent plenty of reports to the British (and vice versa), and the indexes there are more useful than the next choice, the US archives.At least, I am not aware of any way to pursue it, and I don't have records that I can enter and tally, nor would I make the effort to correct an error of 1-2 aircraft or sorties. But 10,000 would be worth pursuing, if I had the records.
Yes, it does. It also breaks everything out. I have found maybe 20 errors in addition in the Digest myself, and some of the totals don't cross-check. It's easy to find with Microsoft Excel, but difficult to correct because I / we don't have any of the records they used to compile the Digest.
This comes close to answering a question I posted elsewhere, although it doesn't quite hit the nail on the head. You've got a number for how many pilots made it through training, but is there any way to find out how many fighter pilots took off on at least one actual combat mission? I would assume that this number is a bit smaller than the total number who completed training. Then, of all those who actually got at least one chance, how many never scored a victory?I posted some number a few days ago that I have discovered are a bit off in one area. I said we had 13,321 pilots who scored 15,865.852 aerial victories in WWII. But what we REALLY had was 13,321 records of victory awards, many to the same pilot. The total number of different pilots who scored a victory or at least a shared victory is 7,342. So, we have 7,342 pilots amassing 15,865.85 aerial victories. That's about 2.1 victories per pilot who scored a victory.
I was curious about the number of pilots we trained, so I checked the Statistical Digest of WWII. This is USAAF only, and does not include Navy or Marines. For Jul 39 through Aug 45, we graduated 102,907 single-engine pilots in the U.S.A. and we accepted 100,554 fighters from 1940 through Aug 45, so we have a ratio of just over 1 pilot per fighter during WWII. Some of these pilots stayed in the U.S.A and trained other pilots. I do not know the numbers.
So, just over 7.1% of the pilots who graduated as single-engine pilots scored all the U.S. aerial victories in WWII. Of course, when you subtract the pilots who stayed in the U.S.A. to train others (unknown number at this time), we are likely down to something like 4 or 5% of our pilots who scored all the aerial victories.