The best WW2 infantry squad or Platoon, choose, construct compare.

[parsifal]

Parsifal,

Did you read about the "Dorette" ? This was a squad level radio. Here it is again:
15W.S.E.a transmitter and receiver, German WWII, WW2

Now how does that compare to the "Handie Talkie" ?

I believe the FallschirmJaeger GebirgsJaeger were equipped with this piece at squad level. I'm not sure enough were made to equip the Wehrmacht Waffen SS though, so they were relying on the Torn.Fu.d 2 and the like at Companie level mostl likely. But so far I've seen no data to suggest that the Western Allies were equipped with more radios, or that they were equipped at squad level.

I agree that this "Dorette" was small enough to be a squad level radio, but it was not built until October 1944, and we have no information on production numbers or distribution. Also the information provided in the link is extremely sketchy so I cannot make any real comparison.

What would establish the German scale of distribution would be some figures on production of the various types. The Allies produced enough radios to distribute them down to squad level......just two types selected (as a sample) from perhaps a dozen used yields a production run of 50000 for the SCR-300 and 150000 for the SCR-536. These numbers suggest a very wide distribution of radios , down to squad level (fairly easily) for most of the war.

What we need is the production figures for the German sets.....

 

[parsifal]

A good example of equipment similar to the Dorette was the w-38. The Mk III was introduced from early 1944, and was hermetically sealed, making it completely waterproof.

Its details (that I know of) are:

Wireless Set No. 38 Mk.3 was based on the No. 38 Mk. II* model but with a much improved netting and tuning facility. In addition, it was tropicalised (hermetically sealed in a die-cast aluminium case) and carried on the operator's back, the control being a mechanically operated remote control. The basic circuit compared to the Mk.II* is not changed very much.
Crystal calibrator No. 9 fitted to the case for calibrating and netting.
Case hermetically sealed and tropicalised.
Standard 150V/3V No. 38 Set battery.
Issued in 1944.
Manufactured at Murphy Radio Ltd.
Use: short range Infantry communication. Frequency range 7.4-9.2MHz. MO control. RF output 0.2W. R/T only. Range: up to 1 mile using long 12ft rod. This set has unique design features using only 5 valves.

For comparison, the data for the German equipment (such as we know) is as follows:

This transceiver came in to service in October 1944 and was produced under a short time.
This is a lightweight two-way radio transceiver.


Frequency range 32 – 38 MHz
Power output: 0.2 Watt
Power input: 1.4 Volt and 150 Volt
Operating time with one battery: 25 hour (20% transmit – 80% receive)
Antenna Band antenna – 1.6 meter
Tubes Two RL1P2 and one DDD25
Size, transceiver: 13 x 7 x 20 cm
Size, battery box 13 x 7 x 20 cm
Weight transceiver: 1.6 kg
Weight battery box 1.5 kg


A quick Picture or two of the W-38 mk III

 

[Juha]

Some British radio production numbers from Artillery Communications

Type 18 76,000
Type 38 187,000

Juha

 

[Lucky13]

Have to ask. Is a plutoon the same number of dudes in the US Army, British Army etc.?

 

[Juha]

Number of men in platoon, it depends from army and branch and timeframe, but say 30-40men.

Juha

 

[Soren]

A platoon normally consists of between 20 to 40 men, but it can be lower. A squad is normally 3 to 5 men.

 

[Juha]

Finnish squad in 70s was one Corpral (>>) plus 7 men, Pioneer/Combat Engineer/Sapper what ever it is called in English squad was 1+7+a driver, the driver wasn't integral but usually attached.

British Army 1944 Inf Platoon had 1 officer + 36 men, it consist of 3 sections (squads) of 10 men, a 2" mortar team + probably signal men.

German armoured Inf squads should have had 1 SdKfz 251/1 each, so it was about the size of British section

US Inf squads had 12 men, Armoured Inf squads had one M3 half-track each.

Juha

 

[parsifal]

There was a lot of variation in squad and platoon sizes, depending on lossesand the stage of the war. Gemran authorized strengths on the eastern front were seldom up to strength, and according to Costello averaged out at about 40% authorized complement. There was this constant stream of men leaving units, usually for recovery from some form of illness or wound, and then returning some months later. 5/6 of combat casualties were non-lethal or non-permanent, and about 30-40% of total casualties were not even combat related.

The Russians had a unique and strange replacement system. To them, a division was an expendable item, and they deliberately built their divisions up as pure combat elements. There was very little "tail in a Russian division. The Russians did not expect a division fully engaged on a front to last more than a few days. They would fight the thiing down to cadre strength, pull out those cadres, and retire the Division for rebuilding. It was a vicious system, but it worked.. Typically a russian Infantry Div was either full strength or resting/rebuilding.

The western allies suffered hevay casualties, but nowhere near the catastrophic levels suffered by the Russians and Germans. On average, in 1944-5 the US divisions suffered about 3-3500 casulaties each in the 9 months of fighting. That is a deceptive number, however. The allies had relatively few fighting elements in their divisions as compared to the Germans or Russians. The british Divisional slice is very illuminating in this regard. Nominally there were 18500 men in a British Infantry Division, however, if you include the support echelons, the supply guys, drivers, LOC troops and the like, the number is over 55000 men. However, of that 18/55000 men, only 3500 were Infantry combat elements. The Infantry in the US and the British armies suffered well over 90% of the total casualties for each army, so the 3500 casualties means that if you were in the Infantry and went ashore at the Normandy landings you statistically only had about a 50% chance of surviving, provided all casualties before your number came up had been immediately replaced .

I have a couple of books that give details on squad/platoon sizes and equipments scales which I can post up if people would like

 

[Soren]

A squad is 10 men strong normally, thats' true, the fire teams are 3 to 5 men strong, a missprint on my part.

The Germans did have 5 man squads late in the war though.

 

[Soren]

What form of transport would you guys propose for the US Commonwealth platoons ?

The Soviet platoon is going to be tricky though..

 

[Soren]

For the Soviet platoon I think the STZ-5 is great choice for land transport. As for transport by air, the Soviets are pretty much at a loss here.

The US platoon would be well of with the M29 Weasel as a small tower. As for carrying the men, well not sure what they would use at this point. Now I've found a number of heavy tracked movers, such as the M4,5 6 tractors, but the problem is their all very large and as heavy as a tank, making transport by air almost impossible, and the engine takes up so much space that they can hardly carry any men.

Remember this is about creating a unit is capable of operating in the invirontments listed:
Jungles
Winter landscapes
Deserts
Mountains

 

[parsifal]

Probably the best Soviet platoon/squad level halftracks would be the ZIS-42 series, of which over 8000 were manufactured.

I would also consider the STZ-5 fully tracked vehicle. Although used mainly as an ammunition tractor, they were also pressed into service at times, particularly when the mud or snow prevented other forms of transports, as Infantry transport. The German RSO was a very similar design, and one its main attractions was its low cost. More than 12000 STZ-5s were manufactured.

Some pictures of the same

 

[parsifal]

For the Soviet platoon I think the STZ-5 is great choice for land transport. As for transport by air, the Soviets are pretty much at a loss here.

What about the Li-2 the licence built C-47????

 

[Soren]

What about the Li-2 the licence built C-47????

Couldn't carry as much as a single STZ-5 mate. That's the issue atm. We gotta find a Soviet transport a/c which can carry this.

As for the ZIS-42, isn't it abit on the large side ?

 

[parsifal]

well, the Li-2 was the Soviet version of the best transport aircraft of the time, the DC-3, so if this aircraft cant cut the grade, no other aircraft is going to do better....


The ZIS was the light truck of the Soviet army....rated at 1.5 tons capacity. It is a bit large, but then it is also one of the the smallest truck used in the Soviet army

 

[Soren]

well, the Li-2 was the Soviet version of the best transport aircraft of the time, the DC-3, so if this aircraft cant cut the grade, no other aircraft is going to do better....

Really ? I can think of a few:

Me-323 (Could carry atleast 3 RSO's plus all the personnel)
Arado-232 (Could carry 2 RSO's plus abit of personnel)
Ju-252 (Could carry 2 cars plus abit of personnel)
Ju-290 (Could carry 2 cars plus abit of personnel)
Ju-390 (Could carry 3 cars plus abit of personnel)
BV-222 (Could carry 3 cars plus much of the personnel)

And I know the US had some a/c capable of transporting vehicles as-well.

Problem with the DC-3 is that it's a small a/c, and will only be able to carry some of the men. You'd never be able to fit a car yet alone a STZ-5 in it, and if you could then it wouldn't be able to lift off.

The ZIS was the light truck of the Soviet army....rated at 1.5 tons capacity. It is a bit large, but then it is also one of the the smallest truck used in the Soviet army

Well it's too large IMO, I think the STZ-5 is a better choice. Problem with both though is also their weight..

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Problem with the DC-3 is that it's a small a/c, and will only be able to carry some of the men. You'd never be able to fit a car yet alone a STZ-5 in it, and if you could then it wouldn't be able to lift off.

Actually that is wrong. The C-47 could carry Jeeps.

This is taken from the official Boeing Website:

As a supply plane, the C-47 could carry up to 6,000 pounds of cargo. It could also hold a fully assembled jeep or a 37 mm cannon. As a troop transport, it carried 28 soldiers in full combat gear. As a medical airlift plane, it could accommodate 14 stretcher patients and three nurses.



We have even posted pictures here before of a Jeep being loaded onto a Jeep through the rear doors.

 

[Soren]

Ok, a jeep, a very small car. But that's it.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Ok, a jeep, a very small car. But that's it.

Still a car...

 

[Soren]

Sure, but what can we use that for Adler ? One small car and no personnel.

In short: we need another a/c.