The day I saw Mustangs over Berlin, I knew the jig was up

[Browning303]

Hi guys, I have a few questions about the long range of the P51 and the German reaction to it. I've included Goering's alleged quote as the title because I think it sheds some light on the German awareness of a fighter that had the range to fly to Berlin, engage in a dogfight, then fly back to England. Presumably the German's knew the allies were attempting to create such a fighter prior to the first mission by P51s to Berlin? Or perhaps they didn't, and weren't even sure such a fighter was technologically possible? Presumably around the same time, they must have been aware of the drop tank technology the allies had as they would have found discarded drop tanks around continental Europe?

When the first allied single engine fighters were seen over Berlin, did the Germans immediately realise that the allies had developed a fighter capable of operating at this distance, or did they just assume a flight of fighters had become disorientated perhaps and flown towards Berlin on a mission rather than in the right direction back to England? Was it only after numerous missions to Berlin and back that the German's realised the allies had a fighter aircraft capable of doing this? Goering's quote suggests he immediately knew the allies were now capable of proving fighter escort all the way to Berlin and back, and he was also immediately aware of the strategic consequences of this.

 

[tomo pauk]

Drop tank technology was known to the Germans (and other people) well before ww2, they used it on their biplane fighters and bombers. They, however, managed to forget the benefits of that, and re-introduced the drop tanks on their fighters (Bf 109E) towards the end of Battle of Britain. Germans also knew about long range Japanese fighters, like Zero and Oscar, outfitted with drop tanks, years before P-51 appeared over Berlin.
The 1st US fighter above Beriln was probably a P-38, or at least it have had the ability to fly there, fight, and return to England.
How much of Goering's statements were conceived after-the-fact is very much open for discussion. Looks like he was not aware of trashing the German armed forces experienced before 1944.

 

[Elmas]

Certainly, first of all, the Techical Service of the Luftwaffe measured the capacity of the fuel tanks of the P-51 and, as they knew perfectly the fuel consumption of the engine, their slide rulers taken off from their breast pockets, with a simple division they discovered that the P-51 was not there by chance...
......

I'm of the generation before pocket calculators and I still have my slide rulers... and also some of my Father's...

 

[MIflyer]

Gen Adolph Galland said that they captured one of the test pilots for the Mustang, so the Luftwaffe had known of its capabilities for some time. Whether that was a Merlin or Allison engined Mustang, I do not know, but there were test pilots for the Merlin 61 mod in the RAF.

In his book "The First and the Last" Galland said that when the Mustangs appeared the official position handed down was that there were no long range daylight fighters over Germany. He and another General climbed into their FW-190's and went to have a look see for themselves. The Mustangs found them, and the other General was shot down. Galland escaped only by firing his guns forward, the smoke and shell casings causing the Mustangs to break off under the impression that they were being attacked from behind.

At what point Goering realized that the Americans could make something more than "refrigerators and Chevrolets" is not clear.

 

[pbehn]

From what I have read Goering spent a long time in denial. PR Spitfires had overflown Berlin and P38s could reach Berlin. The P51 had been in service for a long time and its range was gradually extended until it could reach Berlin and further. Goering was more of a politician than a military commander by this time. Perhaps if the quote read "The day Berliners saw Mustangs over Berlin they knew the gig was up for me" it makes more sense as far as his situation was concerned. From a promise that no bombs would ever fall on Germany then none on Berlin it was clear he couldn't do anything about massed raids on the German capital.

 

[swampyankee]

He should have noted that the US could make something other than refrigerators and Chevrolets after finding out that BMW had to take out a license to produce P&W Hornet radials.

Or the DC-3s bought by KLM in 1936 and licensed by Japan before 1939.

He should also have noted that the US probably produced more Cadillacs than Germany produced cars.

 

[Elmas]

 

[Greyman]

From USAFE Air Intelligence Summary of Göring's interrogation:
Long-range fighters were credited by Göring with delivering a major strategic blow to German planning, and he considered them collectively as one of the most decisive factors in the ultimate outcome of the war. The man who once boasted that no enemy bomber would ever attack Berlin "or my name is Meyer," admitted that he was stunned by the first evidence that British and US fighters as well as bombers were flying over German soil for hours at a time. He said he was convinced that deep bomber penetrations were possible only with long-range escort, and that the latter potentiality came as a complete surprise to him. Göring went so far as to say that when fighters actually appeared over Berlin for the first time, he knew that the eventual results would be "tragic."

 

[pbehn]

Hermans musings do have a certain comedy value. By the time he saw a Mustang over Berlin he barely had an airforce worth the name, long before that cities such as Hamburg and Cologne had been devastated along with much of the Rhine/ Rhur and he had lost most of his bombers and transports at Stalingrad.