The Fw 190A-9 of Siegfried Baer, 5.Staffel, II./JG301, in Detail....
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- #23
Erich
the old Sage
compare red 22 with white 21 of my cousins 5th staffel. note the werke nummer which places it as an A-8/R2 with two 3cm outobards
Great pic Erich.So your cousin's White21 Werk nummer was 682 985, right?
Besides a small note to your friend's interpretation of White21.In the pic we can see that the crosses on the fuselage were painted probably with RLM74.
In the pic of the model we can see these painted with the black colour only like it can be seen in the colour profile you've also uploaded.
Besides a small note to your friend's interpretation of White21.In the pic we can see that the crosses on the fuselage were painted probably with RLM74.
In the pic of the model we can see these painted with the black colour only like it can be seen in the colour profile you've also uploaded.
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- #25
Erich
the old Sage
Wurger I must be confusing everyone with how I am wording my sentances.....
my cousin flew white 2 an Fw 190A-9 not the Sturm like A-8 in the photo.
am curious though on the crappy shot of the sheep do and the SturmFW can anyone see some of the mg 131's installed or does it look that they were never fitted ? probably too hard to tell I imagine.
wanted everyone interested to see that the 2's of the white 21 and the red 22 look the same and with that I am going to assume my cousins "white 2" looked just like these others along with the red horizontal bar edged in thin yellow over the red portion of the JG 301 Reichsverteidigung band
my cousin flew white 2 an Fw 190A-9 not the Sturm like A-8 in the photo.
am curious though on the crappy shot of the sheep do and the SturmFW can anyone see some of the mg 131's installed or does it look that they were never fitted ? probably too hard to tell I imagine.
wanted everyone interested to see that the 2's of the white 21 and the red 22 look the same and with that I am going to assume my cousins "white 2" looked just like these others along with the red horizontal bar edged in thin yellow over the red portion of the JG 301 Reichsverteidigung band
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- #27
Erich
the old Sage
yes the A-9 had more horsepower.
though here is the stinker........... the A-8 could also have the blown canopy, wooden propellar, late war drop tank, two or four 2cm cannons, during the fall of 44 till wars end.
unless a werk nummer is present or we can see a straight shot of the engine grills to count it is almost impossible to tell the difference. another stinker is that there were indeed A-9/R2's flying with IV./JG 3, maybe in II./JG 300
though here is the stinker........... the A-8 could also have the blown canopy, wooden propellar, late war drop tank, two or four 2cm cannons, during the fall of 44 till wars end.
unless a werk nummer is present or we can see a straight shot of the engine grills to count it is almost impossible to tell the difference. another stinker is that there were indeed A-9/R2's flying with IV./JG 3, maybe in II./JG 300
Erich, a link on TOCH for another I/JG 301 machine W.Nr 206179 from White 2's block. 3 pics...
Did you also check out the Ta152 pic of White 7?
Did you also check out the Ta152 pic of White 7?
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- #30
Erich
the old Sage
Wayne I will have to go back and look at the I./JG 301 a/c page........where is it ? and Yes I have known about Weiße 7 and Weiße 16 for years 
more hidden secrets still left in the bag
E ~
more hidden secrets still left in the bagE ~
Erich, yesterdays Ed West picture links for 30-12 ,doesn't show a code though...bummer! Chances are you probably have pic or pics of this aircraft already? Looks like wide wooden prop blades to me, and outer wing armament not visible either.
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- #32
Erich
the old Sage
ok I am going over there and checking for more.......
206179 is still there just checked for 12-30 (Part 1)
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- #34
Erich
the old Sage
funny I know the seller personally, I may send him a private though am sure the buyer has the items secured, no matter, an A-9 serving on stupid ground attacks against the Soviets in 1945, armed with a underfuselage anti-personal bomb package, the outer guns removed so it was doing high escort duties against US P-51's but the prop is blown and the a/c abandoned
a person like myself does wonder with photo proof of the
a-9 with wooden prop that my cousin just may have had the same..... ?
a person like myself does wonder with photo proof of the
a-9 with wooden prop that my cousin just may have had the same..... ?
Well, 206000 has the wooden Prop also but there are a lot of aircraft between this and 206085 and up to 206179 and for that matter neither clearly indicate the blown canopy either. Do you know of other aircraft closer to 085 that have the standard A-9 features?
My preference at this time is to go with the Blown canopy, wide prop and 4 gun wing armament as per my Red 22, but nothing is for sure is it?
One thing further "White 16" is at Ta152 right? as it sure looks like it to me.
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- #36
Erich
the old Sage
Wayne I can only assume and my assumption would probably be wrong, right now I have nothing close in the way of Nummers to my cousins rig at the time.
white 16 maybe a Dora 9, the pic is a great one as at far right is a A-9 ? of the JG. I will have to look at the tail mount again to confirm if it is a TA of III. gruppe before application of different paint over the a/c number as it would change to green.
Remember this Jg 301 did not associate itself with the norm of the other Geschwaders when it came to markings, some of them ust do not make any sense like a second gruppe bar in white for Ist gruppe and the second gruppe like bar for III. gruppe, then knowing full well that many III. gruppe a/c never wore a bar or any marking to show what gruppe the a/c were with. II. gruppe many times did not wear a second gruppe bar of red.
so you easily see the toughness of trying to figure out what a/c belong to what unit gruppe
white 16 maybe a Dora 9, the pic is a great one as at far right is a A-9 ? of the JG. I will have to look at the tail mount again to confirm if it is a TA of III. gruppe before application of different paint over the a/c number as it would change to green.
Remember this Jg 301 did not associate itself with the norm of the other Geschwaders when it came to markings, some of them ust do not make any sense like a second gruppe bar in white for Ist gruppe and the second gruppe like bar for III. gruppe, then knowing full well that many III. gruppe a/c never wore a bar or any marking to show what gruppe the a/c were with. II. gruppe many times did not wear a second gruppe bar of red.
so you easily see the toughness of trying to figure out what a/c belong to what unit gruppe
Yes, I understand what your saying...sadly
I'm looking at white 16 again...and well I'm willing it to be a Ta but... there should be more wing showing either side..
The tail appears to have an aerial attachment point on top of it unless it is something in the background at just the right spot.
I wish the photo was clearer.
Looking more and more like a D series...
I'm looking at white 16 again...and well I'm willing it to be a Ta but... there should be more wing showing either side..
The tail appears to have an aerial attachment point on top of it unless it is something in the background at just the right spot.
I wish the photo was clearer.
Looking more and more like a D series...
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- #38
Erich
the old Sage
do not want to say much more Wayne as it is going to get covered quite well along with Weiße 7 in time
Well, I can only hope the next 12 months goes REALLY fast then!
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- #40
Erich
the old Sage
Wayne my friend is making a copy of each one of the pics of the I. gruupe A-9 for me ........... now that's service for ya !! then we can go from there as I have a good friend in US intel that has all the camera goodies at his disposal for blowing things like this up for more fun details to ponder.......
