The Fw 190A-9 of Siegfried Baer, 5.Staffel, II./JG301, in Detail....

[Erich]

The man in question....

hey nice pic of his old marker Dan 8)

here is the new one that the small village replaced at their own expense, I sent them of course huge thank you's

 

[Erich]

it's deceiving Wurger and very subtle. A friend did an interpretation of my cousins A-9 some years ago .............

 

[Wurger]

Looking reliably.Was the rudder white painted or with RLM76?

 

[Erich]

Wurger it is just the brightness of the light, it is blue-grey with an overspray right up the tail spine of grey. the pic is not that great but it will have to do. many of JG 301's birds were of many different shades of greys-violet, and green-browns this was also present in their Dora 9's till wars end and then predominance of the so-called bright green on JG 301's Ta 152H's

 

[Wurger]

I understand.From this view the rudder looks like white painted.
And THX for the rest of the info.

 

[Erich]

well I'm back with JG 301 again guys........ this is a possible rendition of my cousins a/c. the white gruppe bar should be red with a very thin yellow outline when the red goes into the red of the bi-colour defense band

 

[lesofprimus]

As most will know, Erichs' cousin Siegfried died in combat on 26 November, 1944, whilst flying White 2 during one of the darkest days for II./JG301...

This thread is to discuss the details of his crate, from the most excellent of sources.... This info will be used by several members here in the construction of detailed models....

Erich, the stage is urs.... If u would, please repost as much as u can certain tidbits/photos to get this thread rollin....

 

[Erich]

let me work up some stuff Les, maybe by early next week, December is an insane month.

gents and ladies

if any of you have Will reschkes book on Jg 301/302 you can see that in September of 44 that the Bf 109G's were replaced in all 3 gruppen with Fw 190A-8's and A-9's. According to the photos provided in his book it is seen several different camo combinations and in fact JG 301's birds by wars end were almost a scrape of different green, brown-violets and greys. the rudder could be a different colour that the tail section as example with the engine cowling back to the canopy something completely different. some of III. gruppe machines had the white spinner spiral and many did not as the spiral effect did give the US heavy bomber gunners something to stare at and fire towards.

My cousins A-9 camo is one of conjecture because his II. gruppe was divided into 2 staffels flying high cover and 2 staffels flying the heavy attack the bombers. whether his a/c had the four 20mm for attacking the heavy birds or just two inboard 20mm for use against the US P-51 formations is not certain. what is known is that he flew an A-9, some say an R11 with bad weather gear fitted.

back in a few ~

 

[lesofprimus]

Ill transfer some info regarding Siegfrieds info...

ok the A-9's in JG 301 were equipped with either 2 20mm's inboard or with the outboard installed as well. this was at the discretion of the pilot, this was also the case of other Fw 190A-9 staffels in all the Geschwaders. what JG 301 did ws have two heavy staffels in I. gruppe and in II. gruppe, the toher two staffeln in both gruppen were deemed leicht-light staffels for engaging the P-51 escorts. at this point in time I am leaning towards that Siegfrieds a/c was equipped with the full on four 2cm cannon as he was defending his Staffelkapitän who was going after the B-24' on the November 44 missions and then shot down by P-51's, Siegfried banked away and tried to escape getting some miles to the west of his leaders crash but was then jumped and shot down, I do wonder though if possibly he did get in contact and suffered from .50 fire from the bombers and then hit by P-51's something without verification by other Jg 301 5 th staffel pilots I probably will never know, there was such a blood letting on that date Schwarze Tag für JG 301 as it is called

 

[lesofprimus]

More.

Great work Les! keep it coming.

To Erich, I have found the Lynn Ritger article on White 2 and the link to the Misburg Raid of Neil Page. A few questions answered!
I guess my first question to you would be the best probability of whether this A-9 had outboard cannon?

Les hope you don't mind my questions to Erich about Uffz. Baer's A-9 as I'm sure anything that we can work out about this aircraft you will use also for a future build.

 

[lesofprimus]

Another.

Erich, another question, you comment that White 2 has a red bar outlined in black, yet the few pics of well known later II/JG 301 aircraft all appear to carry the red bar but without a black outline, namely White 21 A-8 682985, White 12 D-9 500408 and Red 22 A-9 490044. (Also each of these gives us the best clue to the actual style of the '2' for our subject aircraft.)
Does this mean there is an early variation to the II gruppe bar not seen on later aircraft?.. but may appear on unpublished images of early aircraft?

 

[lesofprimus]

And the reply:

yes Wayne it is a plain red bar no outline but slightly different in colour compared to the red that is in the band

 

[lesofprimus]

In Willis' book on JG301, Siegfried is listed as lost on page 173, due to aircombat flying Fw190A-9/R11 WrkNr. 260085....

 

[Erich]

back to my response to Wayne. the red gruppe bar was very cl.ose to the red in the fusleage band so the red horizontal bar was given a very thin yellow outline.

Reschkes book is wrong as there is a strong chance that it was only an A-9. the Werke nummer is incorrect as well as it is 206085 part of the new A-9 block in September of 44......then possibly a flat canopy and not a bulbed one on later models, also hard to say whether it had the standard prop or a wooden one for more power

 

[lesofprimus]

Heres the Misburg Combat Writeup by Erich and Niel Page.....

Focke Wulf 190 JG 301 26 November 1944

 

[Wayne Little]

Erich, the A-9 of KG(J)27 White 2 W.Nr.206000, do you have the images of this bird?
It clearly has wooden prop blades with what is left of the portion of the top one that is visible, it looks like it is the wider blade, but only a short stump is actually left to be seen under the GI's arm.
Would this give us a positve toward this prop type? or are there simply too many machines between this and 260085?

 

[lesofprimus]

Work Number has been corrected by Erich to 206085, NOT 260085....

 

[Wayne Little]

Ah, sorry Les that was my typo! got 206000 right then reversed the '06'...

 

[seesul]

well I'm back with JG 301 again guys........ this is a possible rendition of my cousins a/c. the white gruppe bar should be red with a very thin yellow outline when the red goes into the red of the bi-colour defense band

Hi Erich,

may I print it out and send it to Willi Reschke with your permission? I mean the picture of Siegfried´s FW...

 

[Erich]

yes my friend go ahead. I think though the red bar for second group needs to be noted, the canopy may have been flat not the later type that was rounded but I am still not 100 % sure

E ~