Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Your post indicated it was a reply to two people and that was the 2 previous posts that enquired on your Sabre being waxed by a Trainer
What trainer was this I might see a T38 getting a bounce but what else
Hello Neil, Interceptors are supposed to be short range protectors. The Lightning was a faster Spitfire in that respect. It was designed to protect her homeland, not some vast continent like yours. Horses for courses mon brave.
Cheers
John
The Gnat wasnt a designed trainer....it was a gunfighter from the start. Probably the best gunfighter of the subsonic class.
I wonder how many air to air refuellings if it had that capacity did it need to cross Atlantic, the CF5 needed about 7-8 and would think the Lightning would be about the sameIf the Lightning was short legged then the Gnat was out a fuel taxying to the runway.
The Gnat wasnt a designed trainer....it was a gunfighter from the start. Probably the best gunfighter of the subsonic class.
A Sabre getting waxed by an armed T38 Talon trainer, essentially/equivalently a F5 fighter, would not be something to feel humiliation about. The Talon's on paper performance is superior. The semantics of the words "essentially" and "equivalent" provide flexibility in description. The Sabre was waxed by a supposedly inferior opponent that is more well known for being a trainer, Charlie Sheen prop, and air show performer than as a famous, ferocious fighter like the F-86. The mere fact that none of the posters to this thread immediately realized what aircraft I was referring too is evidence of the truth of the preceding statement. An insect of an aircraft known as "The Sabre Slayer" has a better kill ratio against Sabres than the Saber has against it. It is also a product of British aeronautical genius. Designed by the same guy who designed the Lightning. By the way, on my list of "favorite" jet fighters, the F-86 Sabre is first among equals. As I rhetorically stated earlier "Why do you make me choose one among the many I love?".
7-Year Old Boy Wins, Then Loses a Harrier Jet on eBay | Geek.com
An opportunity of a lifetime.
I bet his Dad's face was a picture...
Trying to determine what really happened during air combat between Pakistan and India is frustrating. For what its worth, India has admitted that 2 Gnats were lost to F86s and Pakistan has admitted that 3 F86s were lost to Gnats during the 65 war. The Gnat was very hard to see due to its small size and outclimbed the F86, but it is an exaggeration to imply that the Gnat dominated the F86, IMO.
So tell us WHO the consensus is??? I think you're possibly the only one who has come up with this. I mean, didn't you initially say and I quote "The F-86 Sabre's reputation suffers from the eternal humiliation of getting waxed so frequently by what is essentially an armed trainer." I don't see these numbers as either "frequent" or humbling, so I guess this is possibly you're own baseless opinion?!?!?the consensus is the Gnat was more of a Sabre Slayer than the Sabre was a Gnat Swatter.
Repositioning of tongue back into cheek will commence in 5,4,3,...
I'm wondering if this thread question could be neatly divided into those jets that actually fought real battles and those that did not.
For example the Lightning never actually saw war but, the Harrier did.
It would be easier to run a list of proven warriors and a list of those that acted as a deterrent.
What do you think?
Cheers
John
the immortal words "Lighten up, Francis!"
In my opinion, it is incredible that anyone would dispute what the Gnat did to the Saber was anything other than humiliating and ignominious. There are so many sources in print and on the internet (including some from Pakistan) that support this conclusion it should be self-evident to anyone taking the time to read them. Even the lowest acknowledged victory to loss statistics indicate the Gnat triumphed over the Sabre 2 to 1. The ignominy is not just from the fact that the Gnat was considered technically inferior to the Sabre, the Sabres had American Sidewinder AAMs, and the IAF was considered to be qualitatively inferior to the PAF in almost all areas. It was not just a one time fluke either. Gnats waxed Sabres in multiple engagements in two different conflicts separated by 6 years. Six years that the PAF had to develop countermeasures to combat the Gnat and apparently failed to do so. In my opinion, anyone denying that what the Sabre suffered from the Gnat was not in terms of human emotion humiliating and ignominious is either uneducated about the topic, willfully ignorant about the topic, or emotionally biased toward the Sabre, and therefore has an opinion I consider to be not worth further serious consideration.
By the way Matt, it is the right upper and no I am not standing on my head.
Not sure why the Gnat beating the Sabre is a humiliation. Strong words.
I would certainly place the MiG-17 above the Sabre though.
My current favourite is the Mirage III. That is a warplane with combat history.