The Me-262 variants.

[Henk]

Thanks Twitch. Guys I posted it not because I said it was true I posted it so that someone who knows will say if it is true or not.

Someone or some other museum wanted to buy Red 8 but the Joburg museum said now way and the sum that was offerd was quite large, but they still said no.

Henk

 

[Erich]

Frankly it is unlear what type of kills or how many Welter had, he never flew the two seater ok got it ?

Personally I have talked with only 1 experten on 10./NJG 11 besides myself and that is my co-author and friend G. Permann along with the Kommando Welter veterans we have interviewed. It will be covered all in our book gents. Red 8 is a wonderful jet of an experiment that was too late. Welter knew that to continue the war against the RAF heavies that a two seater with radar operator and streamlined internal tanks and possibly SM intallation would have to be needed, sadly with radar equipping the existing two seater developed it would of slowed down the craft by at leat 100mph thus it could be caught by Mossie XXX's this is the reason why the fearless single seat nf pilots said bunk to the two seater version B-1a. The B-2a would of come into being had the war continued into the fall of 45 and we have the plans-schematics that we will share in our book with the newer radar layouts and fuel-cell configuration(s) planned.

Welter kills have been reported as fact for too many years at least 50 in old books that have never once interviewed anyone close to this stelath of a figure of a man. No more, we will give you the clues behind him and the jets ............ by the way I have the whole layout from the museum on Red 8 from some years ago.

v/r E

 

[Twitch]

It has always been stated that his kills were flying a standard single-seat Me 262 a-1 aircraft in Wilde Sau tactics, ie, without onboard radar! In my only conversation with Hajo Hermann many years ago he made a simple statement that Welter was the "the best night jet ace." I would have pressed the point for more details if I'd known something would be in doubt a decade later.

 

[Erich]

Welter was probably the most sucessful night flying ace with the jet but maybe not the best in his own unit. Welter was an extrmely gifted "eyed" night flyer with an uncanny sense for the enemy in the air, and he was also a drunk and this last statement will be shown sadly through our work. He never flew the two seater and most kills against the Mossie were done in the Fw 190A and the Bf 109G-6/AS before he own involvement with tests in December 44 with the single seat 262 and Arado.
another note the Kommando Welter flew helle nacht missions not the wilde Sau of old which was terminated after JG 300 left those missions in the spring of 44. In fact the 10.(N)/JG 300 staffel that Welter was very active and successful in flew Helle Nacht missions using lanes of searchlights to broadcast the whereabouts of Mossies of the LSNF forces towards and from Berlin

 

[Twitch]

There are those who believe that Greg "Pappy" Boyington is a not worthy of recognition simply because he was an S.O.B. and heavy drinker. For true aficianados of fighter pilots they know being a hard drinker pretty much goes hand in hand with flying fighters. I know 1sthand that most still can tie one on in their 80s! My and many peoples' take on that is simply that we acknowledge and celebrate their achievements while in the air and during the war. It's not up to us to judge. Their skills in the air outweigh everything else.

As one write to another I ask you please don't dwell on personal faults of the pilots. Readers truly don't care if Welter got stone drunk and went around the base shooting up aircraft with his pistol. Put that in the manuscript sure but don't demonize him for it. What they care about are details of his time in the cockpit flaming a Mosquito that never saw him.

 

[Erich]

I simply do not need to be told on how to write and research this unit. have done studies with vets and the association with Night fighter missions since 1964. From the outset some 35 years ago it was my plan to release a work that was truthful in it's entire content instead of producing well know speculation. Demonize him we will not but will give him credit where credit is due, and on the other hand we will give the reasons about his womanizing and drunken beahviour with other pilots, and in fact there is one in particular that will have nothing to do with our work because of the truth that lies within.

We have the complete confirmation records of kills of the units not some silly unknownst 45-75 kills that have been broadcasted for over 50 years. I have seen them and no cross checking was done till recently when finally the eastern borders of Germany were opend and we were fortunate to get into contact with a well know German author who had many files upon the unit just saved before they fell into Soviet hands when Burg airfield was blown off the map. As he did not care to release the documents through a book of his own he allowed us the materials.

does this make sense ? and I must asure you the whole picture as possible will be clarified and that, my writer friend is of interest to all especially since the Kommando has remained stealth and for good reason. Welter never did confide totally with his RAF and RCAF captors about certain secret elements that were going on the last two months of the war; factually he died with many of them laying at his bedside buried in a communal grave with good friends and relatives

 

[Henk]

100mph, no never. The two seater was well equiped for night fighting duties and had great radar on board to be able to fight the heavys. Well about the kills of the pilots I do not know anything.

well the Brits gave the plane without a lot of things not onboard aand without its guns, why the hell did they do this?

Henk

 

[Erich]

Henk it was hoped even with out the 100 mile per hour loss that it could catch RAF heavies and it could at the presumed speed it was designed with at least for the B-1a but we will never know about this since not one two seater intercepted any RAF 4 engine bomber. As I mentioned with the new B-2a things would of tunred out quite differently and quite unexpected for the RAF as losses would of risen to critical levels. The neptun radar would of been replaced by a new AI version already proven in late war Ju 88G-6's unjammed along with teleprinter unjammed for easier ground to air detection.

all in all what-ifs of course with the war ending not in the Germans favour.

Remember that many Lancasters/Hali's did not have a belly turret due to anti-jamming devices located within, but I will let that be as our English membership can fill us in more on that ........

E

 

[Henk]

Well I do not know if any Me-262 night fighters flew during the war and I am trying to find out now.

What ifs are nice to talk about.

Henk

 

[Erich]

think and read clearly my postings on this thread you started as well as go back to the archivs as I have let loose materials that will be in one of our books.

read this and understand please........

1 Mosquito kill by 1 two seat Me 262B-1a night fighter flown by pilot and ace Herbert Altner.

the rest of the kills were scored in the single seat Me 262A-1a including several day kills in late spring of 45. you'll have fun reading about one French cocky ace/Typhoon pilot who just about was smeared all over German territory. his wingman was torn apart/ more like vaporized by 3cm Minengeschoss rounds and the French ace attributed it to 2cm ground Fla which is wasn't.....all recorded in our book. You already know whom the Frenchman is ..... with his two silly books

Verstehen sie ??

Erich ~

 

[delcyros]

I am looking forward to read this book, keep up the good work, Erich.

 

[Henk]

Thanks Erich

Henk

 

[Erich]

Friends we are trying, the book was suppose to be out to the public 3 years ago, but we have enhanced it greatly with more text, maps and photos. A complicated work which you will see when you read it. Still not done with some of the personal interviews and athough memories start to get foggy over time some new and quite interesting recollections are appearing .....

Gruß

 

[Henk]

I hope it is not expensive, lol. I love WW2 books and will buy it if I see it after it is published.

Henk

 

[me262]

...

 

[Henk]

Well, I am not going to start a fight about this but why do you think I say Horten 229 and not the others? Who designed the aircraft?

Horten IX was the first name and later became known as the Horten 229 and after Gotha got the contract to contract to build the aircraft people said Gotha 229. I do not agree with that if because of the guys who build it.

Please read the right information and read careful and you will see why I and many other say so.

Henk

 

[me262]

...

 

[Henk]

Mylelf and others call it the Horten 229 because of respect towards the Horten brothers for all the work they did. The Horten brothers build the first Horten 229 so it should be called it. Gothat never completed a aircraft except a half finnished one.

Controle of the building of the Horten 229 never actualy changed, the Horten's were still involved.

Like I said mate please read up on this.

Henk

 

[me262]

...

 

[Henk]

Do you have any books about the Horten 229?

Henk