The Me-262 variants.

[Twitch]

Waggon-fabrik Gotha was in charge of construction of the Hortens. But OFFICIALLY there was to be no Gotha name on the Project 9 aircraft until production aircaft were produced. Every airframe made or under construction was a prototype. V-2 and V-2 were Horten-built and the V-3 throught V-8 were Gotha-built but still under the RLM's Ho designation

Nevertheless, it was a very interesting and innovative plane under any name.

Here's a few of my books that I consulted:

Bergaust, Erich
Hitler's Secrets Revealed
Bantam Books, NY, 1956

Simon; Leslie E.
Secret Weapons of the Third Reich
WE, Inc. Old Greenwich CT, 1947, USA.

Green, William
Fighters Vols. 1
Doubleday Co., 1960

Green, William
Jet Aircraft of the World
Macdonald, London, 1955

Green, Wm.
The Complete Book of Fighters
Smithmark Publishers, NY, 1994

Green, William
Warplanes of the Third Reich
Galahad Books, NY, 1986

Myhra, David
Secret Aircraft Designs of the Third Reich
Schiffer Publishing, Atglen, PA 1998

I find no reference for a Me 262 A-1a/R1

 

[Erich]

as I said........

Twitch get rid of your William Green bogus books. all very old news. His aircraft of the thrid Reich, sadly should be eliminated from every serious student of Luftwaffe history.

for the 262 I would strongly advise the expensive but worth it 4 volume set from Classic Pubs and also the single volume of Me 262 combat diary besides Manfred Boehmes JG 7 now printed in English is a must on the unit although still some gaps that need to be filled. I have over 25 books just on the 262 collected since 1964

 

[me262]

...

 

[Twitch]

Erich-no need to be beligerent about books OK? But the overwhelming majority of authors besides Wm. Green who have researched data about the Horten have stated the V-1 V-2 are designated as the Ho 9. Machines V-3 through V-8 were designated as Ho 229s. PRODUCTION aircraft were to be designated Go 229. Since no production aircraft reached fruition technically then no offical Go 229 ever existed.

In Green's books he actually calls the plane the Go 229 with the added stipulation that I just conveyed above. So do all the other authors before of after Green. I listed only a few books I quickly referenced out of nearly 500 I own. The plane was to be called the Gotha Go 229 but never reached that point since the prototypes were all Hortens by name.

With all due respect I simply am puzzled as to why something that is known to be stated in myriad manuscripts on the subject must be looked at with a jaundiced eye because one person says so.

Would we call the Me 163 a Messerschmitt product if Lippisch and team hadn't been transferred to Messerschmitt? If Messerschmitt was slated to built the DFS 194 but that never happened why would we call the DFS 194 a Messerschmitt and not acknowledge the DFS connection?

Why prolong banal nomeclature discussions? You all can call it anything you all want as long as you can be "right." Then we'll all be happy.

 

[Henk]

Dam Twitch I wish I had the books you have. I also did not find anything like the Me-262 A-1a.

Yes you all can call it what you want as long as we do not fight about it and if you know the History of the aircraft.
Now then does anyone have more pictures on the Me-262 Mistel bomber I posted before?

Henk

 

[Erich]

Twitch, hey man go by your real name so I can give you a real answer.....alias's suck gents.

I am sick and tired of people telling me this kind of crap and nothing against you man but lets face reality. time and time again W. Greens books have been used regardless of the fact that much materials are myths brought up by captured Luftwaffe crewmen and also ground crews to foil Allied intelligence even at wars end, a simple FACT that has been overlooked for years. Green and many others of the 60's and later 70's generated books accepted all this nonsense. Sadly it gets repeasted over and over again for the guys that were born in the 1990's and to the present. Wish these books would be gone through and severly edited. Ask questions and test the waters, this is how I first got started in 1964

do you follow me ?

am I belligerent no, you don't me so do not presume. One reason why I hate the cybernet, there are no personality traits that can be transferred over. One day though we will all be communicating with video sensors, a matter of simple time

 

[Henk]

Chill Erich. Well I think most of the secret weapons of Germany has been swept under the carpet for too long and some it are just ignored all in all. If you take, a history book of WW2 should tell me everything about the war, but they do not do that and thus their are a lot of assholes who just makes up their own shit.

I first started learning about all these aircraft of the Luftwaffe when I bought the Jane's Fighting Aircraft of WW2. It is 90% correct and it can give you a great idea of what all the sides developed.

I have heard time and time again that W. Greens books are great and a good reverence.

Henk

 

[Erich]

you chill son I know of what I speak and if you want Greens crap be my guest, I have given you the facts.

your horten Gotha thing is way off topic anyway so start another bloody thread

 

[Henk]

Erich mate please I do not want to start a fight and I appolagise for me being off topic.

No need to be rude.

Henk

 

[Erich]

how do you know I was being rude, why do you guys tell me to chill ? This is getting really funny, how do you know I am not teasing you, how do you know I am serious ? how do you know I am what I say I am...........all of you don't.

I say it again their is no personality traits when it comes to typing anything on the internet. It is confusing and non assuming or it should be. Do not presume to think or feel that I am downgrading you guys in anyway. It seems you young chaps are hypersensitive to any type of criticism and that is pretty darn wimpy/pussy or whatever you want to call in it my book and several other vets here that are modersators. A little bit of respect and using true identities would go along way for respect in return. My suggestion is start working on it. We have a vast array of knowledge going on here in the moderating team, use it do not defy it.

v/r E ~

 

[Henk]

Ok, I understand I did not intend to offend anyone.

I am here the person that I realy am and I use my own name. Actualy my real name is Hendrik Gabriel Greeff, but everyone calls me Henk so that is what I am using.

Well I might be young but it does not make me dum or a idiot. ( not that you were saying so)

Did youthink that I am not who I say I am here?

Ask Twitch and he will tell you my name is Henk.

Do want to know more about me I do not care to share?

Henk

 

[Erich]

good your free to go......... and Twitch needs a first name as well Hendrik. You can also post in one of the upper forums who you are and about yourself, take a look...........and place a photo of yourself with member, moderator Les

Hendrik I never once said you are dumb/idiot. Again the problem with communication over the net. To put it calmly, we have to ask questions and try and discover what is in between the lines of old stories told whether we believe they are true or not. there is much written after the war until present which is still old news that needs a thourough cleansing, much needs to be thrown away. this is one reason why my remark is made towards Greens book(s), I do also own a couple from the early 1960's after they were first published, and he has not had anything changed, not even the profiles since that time but has had numerous repeated volumes made. This is also the case of the old news surrounding the Me 262 nachtjäger both single and twin seat versions, that is definately on-topic. Much as has been written and accepted since wars end, and Welter and the pilots were ordered to tell their RAF captors anyting they wanted to know even if it was through lies so they would get a short prison sentanace and that is exactly what happened. the Kommando personell did not want the English or RCAF to fly the twin seater so the Allies were given false instructions on how to fly the birds, thus the result was several accidents and total write-offs. one case nearly casued a severe probelm with English test pilot Eric Brown and we are going to cover that incident and the pics we have of him and Welter, G. C. on the fueslage and wing giving E. Brown lessons on how to start the jet turbos, etc.

 

[Henk]

Erich I understand what you are saying.

You can call me Henk the Hendrik let me think of when my parrents when they got mad at me. lol

Henk

 

[lesofprimus]

I too have found William Greens books to be full of faults and bad information, and I do not use them for reference, nor do I know any researcher/author/fanatic who uses them either.... I agree 100% with Erich on this....

 

[Twitch]

What a bunch of crapola for nothing guys. Clam down! I don't care who has a hard on for Green's books. Excuse me! How the heck was I to know it was a sore subject? How can 100% of his writing be incorrect?Why in hell is everyone so damn touchy? I notice no one degraded the other titles I listed so they must be OK?

So I've been collecting books since I was 10 back in 1958. So? I've intervieved hundreds of aces from the US, Russia, England and Germany. I've written about 300 articles with probably 200 published in print and on the web in several subject categories. So what? I'm not flaunting it. Where does it say that you can't use a screen name? I see tons of others using screen names. My occupation and interests are clearly posted.

I'm simply mentioning quotes that are clearly written by several authors about the Horten 9 and what, no one believes it? I don't come here to argue with anyone only to exchange information, data and have light hearted discussions about pilots and machines. I apologise if I have the wrong books or made anyone angry. I am not accustomed to being come down on for literally nothing so I am frankly stunned and disappointed that the community seems to be lining up against me for owning some reference books. Wow! This is so small of you guys! I guess I should just leave.

if i got you in trouble too Henk.

 

[Henk]

No, it is cool Twitch.

Hey guys lets stop fighting and get back to the topic. Please does anyone have pictures of the Me-262 that has the little cockpit in the nose and were planned to be used in the mistel project.

Henk

 

[lesofprimus]

Clam down

How bout u shut the fuck up and learn ur place before I decide to slam ur ass...

We were making comments concerning William Greens work and the vaildity of it.... Not u.... Its not a sore subject or touchy.... Its a fact... And if ur so involved in the "writing" community, u should know this as well.... Shit, Im just the Grandson of a Black Sheep, and even I know that....

And IIRC, Adolf Galland also discounted his work as "pure jibberish..."

I guess I should just leave.

Dont let the door hit u in the ass when u leave... I dont have time for this mamby pamby BS, act ur age please....

 

[Henk]

Please guys. Lets not get personel. Lets just forget this.

Henk

 

[me262]

bull shit, i'm out of here

 

[Erich]

why leave, again are we being a bunch of panzies Twitch or whomever you are and me 262 or whomever you are ?

Twitch was i commenting on your materials on the Horten or Go 229 ? No i wans't if you read my posts. i do comment strongly on W. Greens book(s) precisely some of the information given in his Third Reich book of a/c. one notorious error is his fantasy on FAGr 5 and their Ju 390 flight to New York and back to France. Sadly as I have said something like this was blown out of proportion by captured members of the stealth recon unit and blown out and Green fell for the deceit and printed it up in full and then it got started and so severly you will see it on nearly every web-site talking about the Ju 290/390 a/c and the units that flew them............this is what I am talking about.

still curious whom you are and what articles you have written and what German vets you have interviewed. pleae I am not trying to deny you and am quite interested in what you have done.

Am I getting hot over all of this ............. nope. Why are we reading into what is not really here ? Is it because I am doubting some of the info I am reading on this thread so this makes me angry and insensitive ??