The most important battle of WWII (1 Viewer)

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Well, how about operation Overlord??? That was very important, without it the Allies would have never landed in Nazi Europe, and take the war to Nazi Germany.
 

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delcyros,

It does not make sense for the Japanese to have attacked Russia rather than the USA and Britain. You have only to ask yourself the simple question - what was in it for them? - to see this.

Attacking Russia in 1941 in support of the German's would have helped the German's a lot, but it would not have done anything to help the Japanese resource situation which inspired them to make war on the US and Britain. Remember, the US and Britain had engaged in an embargo of oil and other critical war materials against Japan in response to the Japanese war in China.

Had the Japanese attacked Russia, instead of the USA, in 1941, this would have made them an Axis nation and brought them into war with Britain anyway - and the USA would have joined the war soon thereafter. But with no sneak attack at Perl Harbor the USN would have been powerful from the start, and there would have been no easy early gains in the Pacific for the Japanese.

It just didn't make sense for the Japanese to attack Russia. What perhaps made sense was for Japan to focus it's efforts on Burma and India. Had the Japanese been able to "liberate" India, it would have cost the British several million troops, and that needs to be multiplied by 2 because the troops would have been switching side - several million less for Britain, several million more for the Axis. From India, the middle east would have been open to a futher attack. I think the Japanese would have done this except they rightfully knew that if they attacked the British the USA would enter the war.

=S=

Lunatic
 
Lunatic,

to debate about what motivations might drove the japanese into a US-japanese war or not is an interesting matter, but I doubt that we have enough reliable informations to come into an overall agreed solution. It is true that Japan would gain more if it concentrate on the Phillipines because it faced nearly the same resourceproblems that Germany had. And after the knowledge of the late 30´s there wasn´t much known about oil reserves in central Sibira. But it was also much more risky for them (compared to a short joint Blitzkrieg against Soviet Union). They had to think strategicly, we are not talking about local conflicts, but about a world wide war! I agree, that an India focussed campaign would be more in the Axis interests, but that would also be much easier, if Stalin have been defeated earlier (no soviet forces would make a difference of up to 500 divisions, according to german estimations in 1940). The japanese were indeed awaiting an enter of soviet forces much earlier than 1945,so the red army remained a danger in their background. Not to imagine the impact it would have on ETO. But that is, however, pure speculation. You know about the history. There was very much a debate about the targets for the next Years in 1941 between military and high politicians in Japan. Even high ranking Admirals (Yamamoto to name one) favoured a later atack on the US. But that special conflict against the US was, what Japan was building it´s fleet for. All the carriers and cruisers would be of limited worth in a conflict against the Soviet Union, true. And a war against the US wouldn´t have been postponed, just delayed. With all my respects, Lunatic, I think that Dr. Richard Sorge´s work is underestimated by historicans in general (..as it is hard to proof..).
Back to operation Overlord:It was simply the major attack of the western Allies against german forces. But I think it´s effect is overrated much. By mid 1944 the war was already coming to an end with major german ground forces already been destroyed by the red army and german military loosing control over large areas in eastern europe. It was a very carefully planned operation, but still most of the german forces have been in the east to stop the red army advancing (..and failed..). Even without DDay the result would have been the same, I think: Soviet forces encircling Berlin in April/May 1945. I do not doubt about it. Overlords biggest benefit, however, was to help the western allies to manage an acceptable post war Nations architekture and -probably- to shorten the war a little. Imagine all central european nations (including France) beeing "liberated" by Stalin!
Battles are, as it was shown earlier hard to define, so what about the oil bombing campaign? It reduced the german capabilities to counteratack and relocate forces greatly and it did shorten the war for months. (fuel shortness became critical as soon as mid 1944, by late 1944 Germany could only support one very limitid Ardennes-offensive (Battle of the Bulge), which stopped thanks to fuel shortage and countermesures by the allies. It affected the german forces against the red army, too.
 
The Aircraft and Gliders carrying the American and British paratroopers took off from England on the 5th of June, however when the airborne troops and the gliders actually reached Normandy it was already the 6th. Some time between Midnight and 0100 in the morning of the 6th. This account says 0100 in the morning but I have read some that say just after midnight.

Just after 0100 on June 6, 1944, the first air and glider-borne troops landed in Normandy. The drops were not going according to plan at all. The pathfinders that came about an hour before them had not been dropped in the right places because the pilots had swerved around the cloud banks and had taken unnecessary evasive action around the light German anti-aircraft fire. This problem was compounded by the orders to maintain radio silence. Only one of the eighteen American pathfinders landed in the right place. But the pathfinders did manage set up their Eureka sets, ADF radios, and other beacons to help guide the paratroopers that were coming in. This was extremely necessary because this was going to be the largest drop ever of paratroopers (almost 20,400 Allied paratroopers were dropped32).
The markings that the pathfinders did make weren't much help anyway because when the gliders and the paratroopers came over France, they too, ran into the same cloud and anti-aircraft problems. More than one stick (planeload of paratroopers) was dropped in the Channel or marshes. The immense weight that the paratroopers were carrying caused many to drown when they landed in water.
Small rag-tag groups of paratroopers did manage to capture the most critical of their objectives. These included the bridges across the rivers that surrounded the invasion area, cutting off the German's support. The paratroopers also managed to hold the causeways that led off the beaches. The protection of these causeways was critical because they were the only way to get troops off the beaches and onto the roads that lead to Caen, Paris, and Germany. The groups and individuals who accomplished this without large-scale organization are some of the greatest heroes of the invasion.
http://www.princeton.edu/~ferguson/adw/d-day.shtml#june
 
Seriously, who cares. Even if a few men did hit dirt a few minutes before 23:59:59 hours on the 5th, is that significant?
 
cheddar cheese said:
mosquitoman said:
Probably the British 6th Airborne taking Pegasus bridge was on the 5th but the main landings were on the 6th

Yep. I think the first Horsa touched down at something like 23.52pm

Read my post above. 8)

RG_Lunatic said:
Seriously, who cares. Even if a few men did hit dirt a few minutes before 23:59:59 hours on the 5th, is that significant?

Nothing people say here is insignificant. ;)
 
I dont know I may be wrong, but every report I have read has said after midnight, they all pretty much contradict each other. Some saying as early as a few minutes after midnight and some as a few minutes after one in the morning.
 
I think any AAR has to be endlessly compared and cross-checked to even begin to approach the truth. The guys coming out of those gliders and transports probably werent watching the clock too closely when they hit the deck ;) And as Im sure Adler and you other military types can agree, when you're in a high-pressure situation, time seems to distort in wierd ways...the small exercises I did as a cadet are awfully blurred in my memory - just lists of events with no real timeframe. Im sure the real thing is much worse
 
You are correct, in times like that you dont even think of looking at the clock. I found believe it or not the time went by pretty quick when things got hairy, it seemed like it was 5 minutes but was really like an hour.
 
The battle for Britain...Not only because it is the best known...putting their hands on the british sofisticated radar sistem and also because with britain out of the way USA would have had a harder job of sending it's planes across the Atlantic Ocean(NO European military airport was at their disposal)...The germans could have concentrate better on the war against URSS(even though I believe that with Britain conquered, Stalin would have made a pact with Hitler, probably for a few years after which one of the parts would break the pact...).
USA would have finished the war with Japan faster, not being attacked by Germany...
In the end...The war would have probably lasted for another 5 years(MAX). But I can't say would have won...
 
The Battle for Belin which was a series of many battles from Mid February 45 till wars end in the ETO. 3/4rs of the Reich air defence was drawn off from the end of January to protect the capital and associated industry, leaving the western regions completely open to a pounding by the Allies day and night bomber forces.......
 

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