The Ta-152.... The Best High Altitude Fighter?????

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Would have been fantastic to see those graceful lines take to the air once again.... Sounds interesting Adler, get yourself a "key ready" 109 or 190... something to have out at the field, while everybody else is puffing around in their Cessna 182's etc.
 
I remember reading somewhere that in late 1944 Kurt Tank claimed that, while flying a Ta 152H, he was bounced by four P-51 Mustangs during a flight to a meeting at the Focke-Wulf plant in Cottbus. It was mentioned that he had stated that his plane had no ammunition on board, so he had no means whatsoever to fight the enemy. He claimed to have made his escape by engaging the MW 50 boost, opening the throttle wide to attain the aforementioned 755 km/h (472 mph) velocity to escape the pursuing American fighters, and left the four Mustangs floundering behind him. Unfortunately there is no evidence at all to support this account, there is no record of any such encounter in Allied records and Tank's unsupported word remains the only suggestion that it ever took place. What do you fellow forum travellers think about this?
 
I don't believe he lied either, and IIRC the P-51 pilots who took chase have even confirmed the incident - I remember something about a USAAF after action report noting the encounter.
 
I don't believe that he'd lie in any way either. Was the identity ever known of the Ta-152 that he flew in this occasion, was it one of the prototypes or a production machine?
 
Well I'm not saying he was lying either. But I disagree that he had no reason for it. Really, what better way to promote your fighter?! "Yeah, I was flying in the 152 and then I get bounced by the best allied fighter, I just pushed a button and left them coughing up my smoke!".

The story was never confirmed by allied pilots.
Kris
 
Flugwerk who build the replica 190's are going to build the D version aswell.
 
Allied pilots wouldnt know what to think... A new aircraft....
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Few aircraft have such a distinctive wing as the Ta 152H. It's one you don't easily confuse with another fighter. As the allied pilots often reported new types which later appeared to be misidentifications, I doubt a Fw 190D with ultralong wings would not have been reported.

At this stage of the game Tank didnt have to impress anyone or sell anything... His designs were at the pinnacle of prop engined craft, and he knew it..
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Les, until the very end Tank was in a power struggle with other companies (especially Messerschmitt) to get production contracts. Remember that alternatives for the Ta 152 were being developed until the very end: the Bf 109H, the Me 209, the Me 262, the BV 155, ...

Also, one thing led to another. If the Ta 152 was accepted, Tanks next designs would be favoured over others. That's how Messerschmitt built of his supremacy from scratch. From 1938 till 1941 he held the monopoly on fighter aircraft which made him Hitler's favorite, a position he was able to hold until the very end, enabling him to get more resources than any other company and allowing him to work on more designs than any other.

You also claim that Tanks designs were at the pinnacle of prop engined aircraft, yet the Ta 154 was a total failure, one of the worst constructed aircraft in German aviation ever.

But again, I'm not saying Tank was lying. I'm saying two things: it cannot be proven. And second, he would have benefitted from it as the P-51 was considered the plane to beat in 1944.
Kris
 
I dont think he lied about. As stated though it can not be proven. Having said that though the Ta-152 certainly could have flown faster than a P-51D so the story is not hard to believe either way.
 
AFAIR he was not bounced by the P-51, Tank saw them first and escaped unharmed. It's not known whether they actually saw him.
 
I would... My Granpa always said the 152 was the finest prop job....

Ive been re-reading Willi's book for the umpteenth time, and just got back into the Tank part, chapter 9, where III/JG 301 re-equips with it...

The assessment of the 152H-0 over the 190A-8/R11's and 12's shows superiority through the entire flight envelope, including smaller turning radius with less tendency to stall at lower airspeed, rates of climb, speeds at various altitudes, on the wing, powerplant and load factors... Most trial took place from ground level to 3,000 meters....

Not exactly the 152's ideal fighting altitude huh???

ANother thing was that the test were conducted with a very good pilot at the stick of the 190, while the 152 pilot had just 2 flights in the type...

The A-8 was a formidable adversary for the Tempests, Spits and Stangs, with many Aces under her canopy... The 152, from the men who flew it operationally, was superior to anything that the Luftwaffe could put into the skies over Germany...

I love the plane..
 
Civettone,

Considering that there are incidents of FW-190 A-8's out-running P-51's on the deck I don't see why the Ta-152H which is faster at this alt shouldn't.

As to identification, well from long distance there was no way to tell what a/c the Ta-152 was related to, not only the wings were different from the 190, the nose was longer as-well.
 
Soren, I never said that the Ta 152H couldn't outrun the Mustang. As you no doubt know, and as your example of the theoretically slower Fw 190A shows, there are more factors than speed to outrun an aircraft. There's visibility, manoeuvring, reflexes, identification, ... and probably the one which took place in that encounter: not detecting the enemy aircraft.

What was the exact date of the encounter? Wasn't the Fw 190D in service yet?
Kris
 
Kris :

The Dora was in service in III./JG 54 in September 1944

remember the JaPo volume(s) 1 and 2 on the Dora already published and then following up is E.E.'s 2 volume set on the bird.

as to the Tank case of spotting the P-51's and running I believe he was testing a C variant........

♫
 
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