Lucky13
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Is it just me that thinks that it's something wrong with todays popular music?
What's wrong.....with todays music?
- Thread starter Lucky13
- Start date
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BombTaxi
Tech Sergeant
Oh dear Lucky... you just gave me a license to rant mate! 
I think part of the problem is that modern pop is mass-produced (as it has been since the Motown days). However, the process today, especially in the UK, is incredibly stale and cynical. A few very powerful figures have dominated the scene for thirty years or so, starting with Pete Waterman, and moving on to Fuller and Cowell. It's just a stream of 'artists', increasingly plucked from TV reality shows, churning out formulaic songs or covers of formulaic songs, which are then marketed to TV audiences whose taste is entirely dictated by commercial radio and the aforementioned TV shows. Any new style which appears is co-opted (garage and grime, for example, have been diluted into radio-friendly formats and lumped in with radio-friendly R'n'B). If no new style is immediately available, an old one is wheeled out and tarted up - think La Roux's pastiche of 80s styles which achieved chart dominance last summer. Even rock music has been diluted down to radio-rock like Nickleback or radio-indie like Coldplay.
Outside of this arena, there is a massive amount of original music in a huge range of styles, but it is excluded from mainstream media and even mainstream retail, and so remains a niche product. Ironically, the best outlet for this stuff is now iTunes, firstly because the 'Genius' software is actually quite smart at introducing new music once you have a few non-standard albums in your library, and secondly because online stores selling hardcopy CD's like Amazon or Barnes Noble now carry very little outside the Top 40 and a few 'classic' titles in other genres. This situation is made worse by the steady demise of independent record stores, which for me when I was a teen, were the number one way of being introduced to new music, usually by the staff.
So basically, we need to get shot of Cowell and the commercial radio stations which play his pap on rotation, and bring back the little pokey independent record stores. And here endeth the rant
I think part of the problem is that modern pop is mass-produced (as it has been since the Motown days). However, the process today, especially in the UK, is incredibly stale and cynical. A few very powerful figures have dominated the scene for thirty years or so, starting with Pete Waterman, and moving on to Fuller and Cowell. It's just a stream of 'artists', increasingly plucked from TV reality shows, churning out formulaic songs or covers of formulaic songs, which are then marketed to TV audiences whose taste is entirely dictated by commercial radio and the aforementioned TV shows. Any new style which appears is co-opted (garage and grime, for example, have been diluted into radio-friendly formats and lumped in with radio-friendly R'n'B). If no new style is immediately available, an old one is wheeled out and tarted up - think La Roux's pastiche of 80s styles which achieved chart dominance last summer. Even rock music has been diluted down to radio-rock like Nickleback or radio-indie like Coldplay.
Outside of this arena, there is a massive amount of original music in a huge range of styles, but it is excluded from mainstream media and even mainstream retail, and so remains a niche product. Ironically, the best outlet for this stuff is now iTunes, firstly because the 'Genius' software is actually quite smart at introducing new music once you have a few non-standard albums in your library, and secondly because online stores selling hardcopy CD's like Amazon or Barnes Noble now carry very little outside the Top 40 and a few 'classic' titles in other genres. This situation is made worse by the steady demise of independent record stores, which for me when I was a teen, were the number one way of being introduced to new music, usually by the staff.
So basically, we need to get shot of Cowell and the commercial radio stations which play his pap on rotation, and bring back the little pokey independent record stores. And here endeth the rant
and also we are all getting old and starting to sound like our Dads !!!!!!
"thats not music its just noise" etc etc etc
"thats not music its just noise" etc etc etc
Catch22
Major
Personally BT, I like Nickelback (by no means my favorite band, but I don't mind listening to them), but I certainly know what you mean about them. They can at times sounds a little radioish.
Rap though, I have literally no liking for. Sure, they can talk really fast. Faster than I can. But they're not singing at all...
Rap though, I have literally no liking for. Sure, they can talk really fast. Faster than I can. But they're not singing at all...
BombTaxi
Tech Sergeant
I'm with you on rap, and personally, I don't think that Nickelback are crap, they just represent a direction in music that I'm not very keen on.
And for the record, I like noise. In fact the more is sounds like noise, the more I am likely to like it. Unless I'm in a classical mood. Or an indie mood. Or... you get the picture8)
And for the record, I like noise. In fact the more is sounds like noise, the more I am likely to like it. Unless I'm in a classical mood. Or an indie mood. Or... you get the picture
8)
Not only music, all of the art forms are pretty pathetic. I think it's part and partial a reflection of the societies themselves. The west shows a growth in nanny states, they tend to kill initiative. Much of art is based on individual perspective. While the west "celebrates" the individual, it also tends to supress them.
Too put it another way, there really isn't much going on across the sphere of creativity. Now, it's either mass produced or corporate sponsored or it is ignored.
Too put it another way, there really isn't much going on across the sphere of creativity. Now, it's either mass produced or corporate sponsored or it is ignored.
ToughOmbre
Senior Master Sergeant
Is it just me that thinks that it's something wrong with todays popular music?
Not just you Lucky. Been thinking the same thing for years now. And it's not an "age" or "generational" thing either.
1) Exception would be country. Has always been, is now, and always will be the most popular muscic in the USA.
2) Hip Hop/Rap doesn't even count as music.
3) No group today compares to the greats that came before. Rolling Stones, Beatles, The Who, The Band, Jimi Hendrix, The Doors, Bob Dylan, Pink Floyd, Lynyrd Skynyrd, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,.
4) I'm sure some of the younger members will disagree.
TO
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pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
There is awesome music in all genres . I think us older folks must remember what your parents thought of the new music we brought home . It wasn't Percy Faith or Perry Como in my case.
Please remember how many of the artists have sponsers that they cater to
Please remember how many of the artists have sponsers that they cater to
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BombTaxi
Tech Sergeant
Some good points in all the posts above. I would agree that there is plenty of good music out there (even if I'm not a country fan ), you just have to go looking for it, because what comes out of your TV, or out of your radio unless you listen to a specialist station, will largely be rubbish.
It is true also that art reflects society, but I would argue that the crappy state of the arts in the UK reflects the ascendancy of free market capitalism, rather than the 'nanny state', in so far as the guy with the most money and commercial clout (Simon Cowell) decides what we all like and then makes lots of it, making lots of money in the process, while anything falling outside this commercial mainstream survives in poorly-funded independent labels or increasingly as self-published cottage industries. Breaking the monopoly and re-introducing competition will give us back choice in entertainment, but the big players have become so large as to be immovable. Capitalism, therefore, stifles the very choice it is supposed to promote.
), you just have to go looking for it, because what comes out of your TV, or out of your radio unless you listen to a specialist station, will largely be rubbish. It is true also that art reflects society, but I would argue that the crappy state of the arts in the UK reflects the ascendancy of free market capitalism, rather than the 'nanny state', in so far as the guy with the most money and commercial clout (Simon Cowell) decides what we all like and then makes lots of it, making lots of money in the process, while anything falling outside this commercial mainstream survives in poorly-funded independent labels or increasingly as self-published cottage industries. Breaking the monopoly and re-introducing competition will give us back choice in entertainment, but the big players have become so large as to be immovable. Capitalism, therefore, stifles the very choice it is supposed to promote.
Maximowitz
Tech Sergeant
Catch22
Major
Not just you Lucky. Been thinking the same thing for years now. And it's not an "age" or "generational" thing either.
1) Exception would be country. Has always been, is now, and always will be the most popular muscic in the USA.
2) Hip Hop/Rap doesn't even count as music.
3) No group today compares to the greats that came before. Rolling Stones, Beatles, The Who, The Band, Jimi Hendrix, The Doors, Bob Dylan, Pink Floyd, Lynyrd Skynyrd, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,.
4) I'm sure some of the younger members will disagree.
TO
I don't disagree entirely. I think Mick Jagger sounds like a dying cat at a kareoke contest and I don't like country, but music is very subjective. I wouldn't say that no groups compare to the old greats, I just think that no single group can get as popular due to the fact that there's so many more groups nowadays that make it big.
I agree with the statement that ever since reality TV shows music has gone downhill .
If you ask a teenager today what was their favorite song from 3-4-5 years ag they usually struggle to name one , let alone 10 , yet when most people are aked what was their favorite song from say 1969,1970 etc they can usually rattle off a few . Todays generation is all about one hit wonders which quickly just become a memory !
If you ask a teenager today what was their favorite song from 3-4-5 years ag they usually struggle to name one , let alone 10 , yet when most people are aked what was their favorite song from say 1969,1970 etc they can usually rattle off a few . Todays generation is all about one hit wonders which quickly just become a memory !
B-17engineer
Colonel
Depends what aspect Jan....the rock today is pretty good if you ask me
Screamo music is...well its people screaming and making money........So to put that in perspective its like Terry screaming in joy when he sees a Wildcat....and it being made into a CD
Rap people say its poetry...Its just made for a quick dollar......
Screamo music is...well its people screaming and making money........So to put that in perspective its like Terry screaming in joy when he sees a Wildcat....and it being made into a CD
Rap people say its poetry...Its just made for a quick dollar......
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Well, there is certainly a large portion of bands nowdays that have a "unique" style that is a little less than desirable, at least in my opinion...
But then again, the bands from the 80's 90's were dogged for "sounding nothing like they did back in the day". I will agree that there were some great bands in the days of the Rolling Stones and the Beetles, but look at how people compared them to the legends like Buddy Holley and Jerry Lee Lewis...who in turn were compared to the likes of Glenn Miller, Tommy Dorsey, Benny Goodman and so on.
But then again, the bands from the 80's 90's were dogged for "sounding nothing like they did back in the day". I will agree that there were some great bands in the days of the Rolling Stones and the Beetles, but look at how people compared them to the legends like Buddy Holley and Jerry Lee Lewis...who in turn were compared to the likes of Glenn Miller, Tommy Dorsey, Benny Goodman and so on.
Cool thread guys.8)
In my opinion,2 things stand out as 'killing' real music -
1)The 'SAW' factor (Stock,Aitken.Waterman) that started the whole trend of cheap,manufactured pap that still rules today.
2)Internet downloads - so much music available now but just how much do the artists actuall receive? What is the incentive for bands to actually make an effort to make something 'real' when in all probability their music will end up being accessed for free,I mean who really buys cd's anymore? (apart from old guys like us!)
Think back to decades gone by,everyone can recognise a 60's sound,a 70's sound,and an 80's sound.If someone asked you to name a 'classic' song that epitomises the 90's and beyond what would u say?I couldn't think of one.
Ok,rant time....
What the hell is it with rap/RnB music videos? Every guy is portrayed as a 'playa' with far too much gold jewellry and all the women are always portrayed as cheap tarts.Some real good role models there eh? My guess would be that it's to distract you from the fact that there is no actual musical talent on display here.
My eldest daughter is infatuated with Justin Bieber.What a goose this guy is,he's never even heard of Germany!Do they not teach History or Geography in schools anymore?
Having said this there are some shining lights around,Muse and Coldplay to name a couple.The former are simply awesome imho
But hey,maybe we ARE just old and sound like our Dads?
Cheers,
Tony.
In my opinion,2 things stand out as 'killing' real music -
1)The 'SAW' factor (Stock,Aitken.Waterman) that started the whole trend of cheap,manufactured pap that still rules today.
2)Internet downloads - so much music available now but just how much do the artists actuall receive? What is the incentive for bands to actually make an effort to make something 'real' when in all probability their music will end up being accessed for free,I mean who really buys cd's anymore? (apart from old guys like us!
)Think back to decades gone by,everyone can recognise a 60's sound,a 70's sound,and an 80's sound.If someone asked you to name a 'classic' song that epitomises the 90's and beyond what would u say?I couldn't think of one.
Ok,rant time....
What the hell is it with rap/RnB music videos? Every guy is portrayed as a 'playa' with far too much gold jewellry and all the women are always portrayed as cheap tarts.Some real good role models there eh?
My guess would be that it's to distract you from the fact that there is no actual musical talent on display here.My eldest daughter is infatuated with Justin Bieber.What a goose this guy is,he's never even heard of Germany!Do they not teach History or Geography in schools anymore?
Having said this there are some shining lights around,Muse and Coldplay to name a couple.The former are simply awesome imho
But hey,maybe we ARE just old and sound like our Dads?
Cheers,
Tony.
tonyb said:But hey,maybe we ARE just old and sound like our Dads?
Cheers,
Tony.
told ya so
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mikewint
Captain
Lucky13, It always good to define terms. Music by definition has to be melodious if not it is not music. so if you can't hum or whistle it it it is not music. rhythmic pounding whilst spitting into a microphone or screaming as loud as you can to cover the fact that you have no real voice at 150 dB is not music.
and just like us they must rebel and set themselves apart so the more we don't like it the better they do
and just like us they must rebel and set themselves apart so the more we don't like it the better they do
Thorlifter
Captain
Very true. Music will always be "better back in our day"
Personally, I like Nickleback. They have a decent hard hitting sound and they are doing what the radio stations are demanding, short and simple songs. I give them credit.
While I agree, I wonder if this will change as the baby boomers leave this world......
Agreed! There are very few songs from the Stones that I can actually listen to.
While that may fit in the timeline, I wouldn't say reality TV killed good music. I think since music has become so stale, reality TV is searching and searching for something good.
What the hell is it with rap/RnB music videos? Every guy is portrayed as a 'playa' with far too much gold jewellry and all the women are always portrayed as cheap tarts.Some real good role models there eh?
Well, you got me started.....
RAP sucks, plain and simple. No talented jackasses acting like they are something soooo special, while the world looks at them like they are a joke. I'm not sure how these guys are making money as their concerts hardly ever sell out. Out of the top ten grossing tours last year, there isn't one rap act.
AND PULL UP YOUR PANTS YOU F'ING IDIOT. Damn. And you have these young idiots driving a $4 car with $2000 wheels and a $1500 stereo.....and thinking they are all badass. Go back to your "Will you have fries with that" job and try to learn a little respect.
(breathe Thor) I just hate that whole genre of so called music.
Some good points in all the posts above. I would agree that there is plenty of good music out there (even if I'm not a country fan
It is true also that art reflects society, but I would argue that the crappy state of the arts in the UK reflects the ascendancy of free market capitalism, rather than the 'nanny state', in so far as the guy with the most money and commercial clout (Simon Cowell) decides what we all like and then makes lots of it, making lots of money in the process, while anything falling outside this commercial mainstream survives in poorly-funded independent labels or increasingly as self-published cottage industries. Breaking the monopoly and re-introducing competition will give us back choice in entertainment, but the big players have become so large as to be immovable. Capitalism, therefore, stifles the very choice it is supposed to promote.
Agree that Corporations have a noted and not positive affect on music. It has turned it into a product. As such, it's a question of producing songs that are 3 minutes long, two verses, a bridge and a final verse with a closing. Very standardized. To their credit, the music of the 60s, on it's good side, didn't go this way. On it's bad side, it probably set the standard for Corporate Music.
Also think if you expand the definition, the art forms such as Painting and Sculpture are dead. Now more "shock art" than any talent (I was thinking specifically of "Piss Christ" with a Crucifix in a jar of urine). You go out to the odd art show and see maybe 5-10% that has any merit and there isn't that much even there. The rest is just repetition or one step above "dogs playing poker". I've seen more novel stuff in a Disney movie than in your average artists work.
True, I'm not a great judge of art. But I figure it is supposed to make some impression on the viewer. Most of the time, I see it and think, "This sucks" or "So?". It isn't a Corporation's fault that art isn't any good. That is what I meant by the cultural affect of society. Most art I've seen is what I would call "safe".
ccheese
Member In Perpetuity
I should not get into this discussion at all. But you have to remember my age... I'm 76. I grew up to the likes of Glenn
Miller, Benny Goodman, Tommy Jimmy Dorsey, etc. These guys made music. Some big names sang with this bands,
Frank Sinatra, Helen Forrest, Doris Day, Ray Eberly, Bing Crosby. There were groups, too, The Mills Brothers, The
Andrews Sisters, The Ink Spots. Man, I could rant all day about what I call "music".
One thing for sure, when they sang, you could understand the words.
No offense intended to anyone, but I wouldn't give a plug nickle for some of the "groups" today. Rap is crap ! When a man
talks about killing cops and "doin' his ho", I got no use for it. I'm not a country fan, so I don't go there at all.
I hear guys on the forum telling about going to "concerts" and I've never heard of the group, and I'm sure they play what
I call "head banging noise".
That's just my opinion... and we all know about opinions.
Charles
Miller, Benny Goodman, Tommy Jimmy Dorsey, etc. These guys made music. Some big names sang with this bands,
Frank Sinatra, Helen Forrest, Doris Day, Ray Eberly, Bing Crosby. There were groups, too, The Mills Brothers, The
Andrews Sisters, The Ink Spots. Man, I could rant all day about what I call "music".
One thing for sure, when they sang, you could understand the words.
No offense intended to anyone, but I wouldn't give a plug nickle for some of the "groups" today. Rap is crap ! When a man
talks about killing cops and "doin' his ho", I got no use for it. I'm not a country fan, so I don't go there at all.
I hear guys on the forum telling about going to "concerts" and I've never heard of the group, and I'm sure they play what
I call "head banging noise".
That's just my opinion... and we all know about opinions.
Charles
