What's wrong.....with todays music?

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michael rauls said:
I agree and disagre at the same time. Whatever art speeks to a person is certainly valid in that respect and i would not want to denigrate it( at least not to virantly) but at some point lack of organized tonal variations if you will crosses the line into an objective lessening of musical quality beyond mere taste. ( at least in my opinion:))Drawing a line where that point is was what i was referring to as being blurred.There is alot of music I dont personally care for but i recognize is good ie well written but don't see that in alot of the newer popular music( I'm always thinking I can't make out an actual tune hear just sounds). Your point however is well taken that with art of any kind if it works for someone then its good for them at least.
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But see you just said: "At least in my opinion".

And that would be correct.

We can argue facts with planes all day long, but no one (myself included) can present opinions as fact. And that is why there is no such thing as actual bad music. What is good or bad is your opinion.

I hate rap music, yet it has what you describe as good rhythm and melody. To me it still is not good music. It is my opinion.
 
How else can one use any word unless one first defines that term. If I say COW and point to an Elephant then we're going to have a lot of trouble (more than usual) communicating. What tonal discordance you choose to subject yourself to is entirely a choice but it is not by definition MUSIC.
Music is melodious i.e., has a MELODY. Melody can be defined as a memorable series of pitches. In a non-formal setting, we can just say it's the tune of the song. The melody serves as a main focus of the song and acts as a means of communication from the composer to his or her audience. Emotions are often implied through melodic contour. Melodic contour is the shape of the melody. This rising and falling action gives the melody shape and personality. Melodic contour is the reason why you can tell the difference between two melodies, even from memory.
Mono-tonal amplified growling into a microphone can hardly be described as a melody.
The guys at Gitmo are missing out on a very effective enhanced interrogation technique. An hour of that and any terrorist would be begging to be water boarded

The true goal of music—its proper enterprise—is melody. All the parts of harmony have as their ultimate purpose only beautiful melody. Therefore, the question of which is the more significant, melody or harmony, is futile. Beyond doubt, the means is subordinate to the end.

— Johann Philipp Kirnberger (1771)
 
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
I hate rap music
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We agree but not on your use of "music" in this contex
From Keith Richards, "Rap — so many words, so little said." He added: "What rap did that was impressive was to show there are so many tone-deaf people out there. All they need is a drum beat and somebody yelling over it and they're happy. There's an enormous market for people who can't tell one note from another."
"Hip-hop leaves me cold. But there are some people out there who think it's the meaning of life… I don't wanna be yelled at; I wanna be sung to. I never really understood why somebody would want to have some gangster from L.A. poking his fingers in your face. As I say, it don't grab me. I mean, the rhythms are boring; they're all done on computers."

Speaking on heavy metal, Richards said: "Millions are in love with Metallica and Black Sabbath. I just thought they were great jokes."

Canned crap from rap flunkies who can't sing as they mutter away to a thumping beat - chattering a useless, deviant monologue of prose with an obligatory video of lecherous beauties fastened to the performer, and partying like there's no tomorrow.
For them and their careers, there's probably no tomorrow.
The rap raiders replaced song with such mindless drivel they ought to hide the lyrics, if there are any. They call it rap because that's what you want them to do - wrap it up. Rap started in the US in the 1970s as a type of street art, according to apologists. More like a squandered literary license, hacking into the rhythm of poetry's maligned iambic pentameter. Once they signed a recording contract they produced at will a deafening, staccato speech about vomit, violence, blood, sex and dark depression.
Rap is the biggest con in the history of music. Rap killed the tune. Imagine Bing Crosby stammering and stuttering White Christmas or True Love. Imagine Stevie Nicks reciting Rhiannon in a droll monotone. Imagine Stairway to Heaven with no chorus and no air guitar.
 
mikewint said:
How else can one use any word unless one first defines that term. If I say COW and point to an Elephant then we're going to have a lot of trouble (more than usual) communicating. What tonal discordance you choose to subject yourself to is entirely a choice but it is not by definition MUSIC.
Music is melodious i.e., has a MELODY. Melody can be defined as a memorable series of pitches. In a non-formal setting, we can just say it's the tune of the song. The melody serves as a main focus of the song and acts as a means of communication from the composer to his or her audience. Emotions are often implied through melodic contour. Melodic contour is the shape of the melody. This rising and falling action gives the melody shape and personality. Melodic contour is the reason why you can tell the difference between two melodies, even from memory.
Mono-tonal amplified growling into a microphone can hardly be described as a melody.
The guys at Gitmo are missing out on a very effective enhanced interrogation technique. An hour of that and any terrorist would be begging to be water boarded

The true goal of music—its proper enterprise—is melody. All the parts of harmony have as their ultimate purpose only beautiful melody. Therefore, the question of which is the more significant, melody or harmony, is futile. Beyond doubt, the means is subordinate to the end.

— Johann Philipp Kirnberger (1771)
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Jesus Christ Mike, you will argue with a brick wall just to hear yourself won't you?

Here is some facts for you. All music has a melody. All music has a rhythm. All music has a tempo. All music has a beat.

ALL MUSIC!

Now what rhythm, melody, etc. you enjoy is all up to you. It is your opinion. What is melodious to you, may not be to others. You however don't get to put off your opinion as fact into what is music and what is not. Into what is good, and what is not.

Sorry, if I am getting a lil angry here, but I fucking hate people argue subjective things as if they are fact. God it is annoying.
 
mikewint said:
We agree but not on your use of "music" in this contex
From Keith Richards, "Rap — so many words, so little said." He added: "What rap did that was impressive was to show there are so many tone-deaf people out there. All they need is a drum beat and somebody yelling over it and they're happy. There's an enormous market for people who can't tell one note from another."
"Hip-hop leaves me cold. But there are some people out there who think it's the meaning of life… I don't wanna be yelled at; I wanna be sung to. I never really understood why somebody would want to have some gangster from L.A. poking his fingers in your face. As I say, it don't grab me. I mean, the rhythms are boring; they're all done on computers."

Speaking on heavy metal, Richards said: "Millions are in love with Metallica and Black Sabbath. I just thought they were great jokes."

Canned crap from rap flunkies who can't sing as they mutter away to a thumping beat - chattering a useless, deviant monologue of prose with an obligatory video of lecherous beauties fastened to the performer, and partying like there's no tomorrow.
For them and their careers, there's probably no tomorrow.
The rap raiders replaced song with such mindless drivel they ought to hide the lyrics, if there are any. They call it rap because that's what you want them to do - wrap it up. Rap started in the US in the 1970s as a type of street art, according to apologists. More like a squandered literary license, hacking into the rhythm of poetry's maligned iambic pentameter. Once they signed a recording contract they produced at will a deafening, staccato speech about vomit, violence, blood, sex and dark depression.
Rap is the biggest con in the history of music. Rap killed the tune. Imagine Bing Crosby stammering and stuttering White Christmas or True Love. Imagine Stevie Nicks reciting Rhiannon in a droll monotone. Imagine Stairway to Heaven with no chorus and no air guitar.
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Mike you give me such a headache. You don't get to decide what is music, and what is not.

It doesn't matter though, I'm done wasting my time with you...
 
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Jesus Christ Mike, you will argue with a brick wall just to hear yourself won't you?

Here is some facts for you. All music has a melody. All music has a rhythm. All music has a tempo. All music has a beat.

ALL MUSIC!

Now what rhythm, melody, etc. you enjoy is all up to you. It is your opinion. What is melodious to you, may not be to others. You however don't get to put off your opinion as fact into what is music and what is not. Into what is good, and what is not.

Sorry, if I am getting a lil angry here, but I fucking hate people argue subjective things as if they are fact. God it is annoying.
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Ok brother I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I just find the topic fascinating as being a musician its kinda my wheelhouse.
I just find the whole concept of what makes music effective and can it be defined verry interesting.
I guess classical music theory would be as close as we have to a definition.
Anyway wasn't trying to agrivate. Just thought it in the context of why alot of new music seems
to many at least including me, lacking in melody or even an edgy chord progression was a genuinely interesting discussion.
 
fubar57 said:
Agreed Alder. A lot of the threads here..."what's your favorite....." NO.....You are wrong. Nothing wrong with today's music, if you don't like it don't listen to it. I like everything from Baroque(1600-1750, love the harpsichord) to new Alt Rock
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Thank you so much...:lol:

I still should not have gotten rude though. It is just frustrating.

I personally happen to really enjoy:

Heavy Metal
Hard Rock
Alternative Rock
Grunge
Classic Rock
Hair Metal
Oldies Rock and Roll
Classical
Early R&B

I absolutely loath and despise:

Rap
Country
Techno
House
Electro

But they are still music and art, and I can respect them for that.
 
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michael rauls said:
Ok brother I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I just find the topic fascinating as being a musician its kinda my wheelhouse.
I just find the whole concept of what makes music effective and can it be defined verry interesting.
I guess classical music theory would be as close as we have to a definition.
Anyway wasn't trying to agrivate. Just thought it in the context of why alot of new music seems
to many at least including me, lacking in melody or even an edgy chord progression was a genuinely interesting discussion.
Click to expand...

And you were not frustrating me. Nor did I feel you were argumentive. My whole point was that a melody is still a melody even if it is one that you don't care for.

My post was meant only for Mike. He likes to pass his opinions off as if it is the all knowing being.
 
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
But see you just said: "At least in my opinion".

And that would be correct.

We can argue facts with planes all day long, but no one (myself included) can present opinions as fact. And that is why there is no such thing as actual bad music. What is good or bad is your opinion.

I hate rap music, yet it has what you describe as good rhythm and melody. To me it still is not good music. It is my opinion.
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Upon reflection I have come to the conclusion you are absolutely rite here.
It's something I have never considered before but the yardstcks I have chosen to define the effectiveness of music or to put it more simply wheather it is good or not are the clasic music theory peramiters(even if boiled down to there most basics at times) which not so coincidentally happen to coincide with what I like.
Someone who likes something starkly different would obviously use different peramiters and theres no reason those wouldn't be just as valid for them as traditional ones are for me.
What is well constructed within classical definitions is certainly quantifiable but as you said when it comes to art who's to say
those are the" write" definitions.
 
fubar57 said:
I've got the 40s channel on the satellite radio going in my grader right now "Percy Faith"
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That got my curiosity up so I ran over to you tube and took a listen to" a summer place theme" ( the first Percy faith piece they had listed).
Ya that's realy, realy good.
In my opinion:)
 
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