What's wrong.....with todays music?

[swampyankee]

I generally can't stand either heavy metal --especially death metal -- punk, or rap, nor am I too fond of Willie Nelson's music.

There's a lot of good music out there, some of which I don't like (Wagner).

 

[mikewint]

Mike I have to apologize to you. It just frustrates the hell out of me when people want to argue art/music that comes down to personal opinion and taste.

Chris, none ever needed but deeply appreciated. There are a number of things that you and I will never see eye to eye on.
Plato described the human soul as having three parts—intelligence, emotions, and appetites. Anger belongs to the middle category of the emotions and is considered a "passion" because it is something we "suffer," i.e., that happens to us without our free deliberation and consent. Plato (and the Western tradition after him) believed that the lifelong struggle for the human person is to gain control of passions like anger. In a famous passage in the Phaedrus, Plato likens the intellective part of the soul to a charioteer who must reign in the two horses of the emotions and the appetites.When people get angry when we disagree with them, it is a sign that they have not yet reigned in that passion of anger.
The personal opinions and tastes here are the genre list you provided. What I posted were definitions and not my opinions. Imprecise vocabulary and "general usage" terms stand at the root of this debate. So call it what you will, but...
The elements of music (without getting too complex) are Rhythm, Melody, Harmony, Color/Texture.
Rhythm, yes most certainly, is present in spades, but you can't seriously contend that that mono-tonal growling is any note on the musical scale nor is any melody present as by definition a melody must have an organized series of pitches. Harmony?? also absent as you must have pitches to combine them into chords. Color/Texture?? also absent since again you must have a number of melodies to relate them one to another.

When the former leader of Panama, Manuel Noriega, was taking refuge from US forces at the home of the papal nuncio in Panama City, the Americans blasted heavy metal at the opera-loving general. The New York Times reported that Noriega, exhausted and tormented by the deafening heavy metal music that troops were playing, surrendered on 4 January 1990.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Chris, none ever needed but deeply appreciated. There are a number of things that you and I will never see eye to eye on.
Plato described the human soul as having three parts—intelligence, emotions, and appetites. Anger belongs to the middle category of the emotions and is considered a "passion" because it is something we "suffer," i.e., that happens to us without our free deliberation and consent. Plato (and the Western tradition after him) believed that the lifelong struggle for the human person is to gain control of passions like anger. In a famous passage in the Phaedrus, Plato likens the intellective part of the soul to a charioteer who must reign in the two horses of the emotions and the appetites.When people get angry when we disagree with them, it is a sign that they have not yet reigned in that passion of anger.
The personal opinions and tastes here are the genre list you provided. What I posted were definitions and not my opinions. Imprecise vocabulary and "general usage" terms stand at the root of this debate. So call it what you will, but...
The elements of music (without getting too complex) are Rhythm, Melody, Harmony, Color/Texture.
Rhythm, yes most certainly, is present in spades, but you can't seriously contend that that mono-tonal growling is any note on the musical scale nor is any melody present as by definition a melody must have an organized series of pitches. Harmony?? also absent as you must have pitches to combine them into chords. Color/Texture?? also absent since again you must have a number of melodies to relate them one to another.

When the former leader of Panama, Manuel Noriega, was taking refuge from US forces at the home of the papal nuncio in Panama City, the Americans blasted heavy metal at the opera-loving general. The New York Times reported that Noriega, exhausted and tormented by the deafening heavy metal music that troops were playing, surrendered on 4 January 1990.

No Mike, all the stuff you describe is there. Because you choose not to see it is because of you being closed minded.

 

[mikewint]

In that case, I ask that you point out my errors and wherein I depart from a Definition into an Opinion. Yes, it is indeed it is my OPINION that Amon and his "Raise your Horns" is not music. As proof I quote the definition of MUSIC and find it lacking on three points.
If there be a melody to that piece it escapes me and I'd sincerely love to hear you Hum or Whistle it.

fan of WWII era Big Band,

Big Band Swing is my type of music.

40s channel on the satellite radio going in my grader right now "Percy Faith"

isten to" a summer place theme"

It doesn't get any better !

YOU BETCHA...'Cause it's Music and has all the required elements Rhythm, Melody, Harmony, Texture.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

In that case, I ask that you point out my errors and wherein I depart from a Definition into an Opinion. Yes, it is indeed it is my OPINION that Amon and his "Raise your Horns" is not music. As proof I quote the definition of MUSIC and find it lacking on three points.
If there be a melody to that piece it escapes me and I'd sincerely love to hear you Hum or Whistle it.










YOU BETCHA...'Cause it's Music and has all the required elements Rhythm, Melody, Harmony, Texture.

I am not going to argue with you anymore Mike. If you can't hear the melody, rhythm, etc., then you'r tone deaf. That or your so fricken close minded that your don't want to hear it.

Either way, I don't care. You can keep it yo yourself. I'm not having a discussion with a close minded person anymore. Peace out...

 

[MiTasol]

Is it just me that thinks that it's something wrong with todays popular music?

I go by the old saying - If you can whistle it, it is music. If you cant, it is noise. - but I do not like all music (some I cant stand - like any "singer" who shouts or screams)

Clearly by that definition rap and some other modern "music" is noise.

Then again. as far as I am concerned "one size fits all" in many cases is a myth promoted by charlatans (especially in the medical and diet fields).

As for country, some is great but, to me, most is mournful, though not as mournful and dreary as most religious music (most negro spirituals and the like being the big exception there).

 

[MiTasol]

and just like us they must rebel and set themselves apart so the more we don't like it the better they do

Yep - there probably is a fair amount of truth in that. I remember my father did not like the Beatles until I got the record London Philharmonic plays the Beatles and put that on. He commented it was good to hear me listening to good music - then I showed him the album cover. But then again you could always whistle the Beatles

 

[tyrodtom]

To me, and that may just me, a lot of modern music, all types, is just someone talking, with music in the background.

I think most of us still like the music, whatever it was, that they began to like as teenagers, or young adults, and everything else is junk.

 

[billrunnels]

I go by the old saying - If you can whistle it, it is music. If you cant, it is noise. - but I do not like all music (some I cant stand - like any "singer" who shouts or screams)

Clearly by that definition rap and some other modern "music" is noise.

Then again. as far as I am concerned "one size fits all" in many cases is a myth promoted by charlatans (especially in the medical and diet fields).

As for country, some is great but, to me, most is mournful, though not as mournful and dreary as most religious music (most negro spirituals and the like being the big exception there).

I really like both country and religious music. Seldom do I hear the words only the music. This is true with all music. The words to country is mournful.

 

[michael rauls]

I really like both country and religious music. Seldom do I hear the words only the music. This is true with all music. The words to country is mournful.[/QUOE]
When to comes to country I prefer the older stuff like Johny Cash, Merl Haggard more tham the newer kinda rockabilly sounding stuff. Kinda has a simple honest feel to it. Something that's a nice contrast to the too much stuff to do and not enough hours to do it of life these days.

 

[michael rauls]

Yep - there probably is a fair amount of truth in that. I remember my father did not like the Beatles until I got the record London Philharmonic plays the Beatles and put that on. He commented it was good to hear me listening to good music - then I showed him the album cover. But then again you could always whistle the Beatles[/QUOTE V
Very illustrative example of how were comfortable with the sound of things we grew up with. Something I find kinda interesting along the same lines is that if you play many hard rock/ heavy metal tunes, either instamental riffs or vocal melodies on an acoustic guitar they will often sound like classical melodies or some other juanra. Coversly many clasical pieces played on electric guitar with lots of overdrive, bass guit, drums etc. can sound verry heavy indeed( the trans siderian orchestra is quite addept at this if anyone cares to hear an example)

 

[MiTasol]

Lets be grateful for music. It adds so much to the pleasures of life. There is something for everyone. So choose what you like and enjoy.

YES - THERE IS SOMETHING FOR EVERYONE. One size fits all is a !@#$% myth - regardless if it is music or medicine or diet or who is the sexiest opposite sex person or any other subject.

I prefer instrumentals and the good thing about the sixties was there were many great instrumental performers and hits.

One of my grandmothers tried for nearly 50 years to indoctrinate me into liking opera. To her that was the ultimate music. To me most of the sopranos sounded like a tomcat being castrated with a blunt power hacksaw blade irrigated with battery acid yet the Triumphal March from Aida is one of my favourite tunes, right up there with Albatross by Fleetwood Mac and Paul Mauriats version of El Condor Pasa. If you do not like any of those that is fine by me but trying to denigrate my selection (or anyone else's selection for that matter) says more about you than about me.

And yes, I still do not like rap, but that does not mean I will call someone stupid for liking it. I might privately think that about many rap tracks but I will not say it because that contradicts my prime belief that one size fits all is a !@#$% myth and is therefore wrong

 

[mikewint]

That or your so fricken close minded that your don't want to hear it.

Chris, it is my turn to apologize to you and to state publicly that you may indeed be right in the above. I had absolutely no intent to denigrate your tastes in (grudgingly) music. (Kinda like your taste is those cheeses in an earlier posing) I did go back to Amon's track that you posted and really tried to listen with an open (I really tried) mind and for the life of me I cannot discern a melody, BUT as you posted, MY not hearing/finding one is not the be all end all of it. So allow me to rephrase my earlier statement: In my OPINION there is no discernable melody and as such in my OPINION it does not qualify to be called music.
As i posted earlier I would really love to hear you hum/whistle/play the Kazoo to that track.
Now additionally I personally could not understand one word out of ten that he growled into the mic so I looked up the lyrics to the track. ZOWIE! what a surprise. A thoughtful, evocative, statement of a warriors credo and the loss of fallen comrades:
So pour the beer for thirsty men
A drink that they have earned
And pour a beer for those who fell
For those who did not return
Raise your horns raise them up to the sky
We will drink to glory tonight
Raise your horns for brave fallen friends
We will meet where the beer never ends
No regrets we went out to war and strife
To protect king and country
Victory honor those who gave their life
Willingly we will not grieve.

I was and am truly amazed by that lyric. With a more melodious tune, less pounding rhythm section, and sung with a greater vocal range and register this would be one of my favorites as well.

I suspect Amon sees himself as a reincarnated Jomsviking and is acting the part at least publicly.

 

[michael rauls]

As long as were on the subject of music just a little suggested listening that I think everyone or at least most might enjoy regardless of ones preferred style. It's a kinda obscure group called Be Bop Deluxe. ( My favorite by the way).
Best album, "Live in the air age". Best tracts, probably "Adventures in a Yorkshire landscape" or "Life in the air age" although the whole album is great in my opinion.
(Wait do people say album anymore?) Guess I'm getting old.I'm not technologically advanced enough yet to post a link but its on you tube if anyone cares to Google it.
Enjoy ( hopefully at least)

 

[mikewint]

View: https://youtu.be/q15OQlH2CRE?list=RDxyWnTBkNbJM

 

[MiTasol]

As long as were on the subject of music just a little suggested listening that I think everyone or at least most might enjoy regardless of ones preferred style. It's a kinda obscure group called Be Bop Deluxe. ( My favorite by the way).
Best album, "Live in the air age". Best tracts, probably "Adventures in a Yorkshire landscape" or "Life in the air age" although the whole album is great in my opinion.
(Wait do people say album anymore?) Guess I'm getting old.I'm not technologically advanced enough yet to post a link but its on you tube if anyone cares to Google it.
Enjoy ( hopefully at least)

I have to admit that with that cover I would never have considered that album to listen to. Not my favourite but very far from unpleasant and a very skilled guitarist.

 

[michael rauls]

I have to admit that with that cover I would never have considered that album to listen to. Not my favourite but very far from unpleasant and a very skilled guitarist.

Thanks for giving it a listen. Ya that cover on there first album has always been a head scratcher for me. Doesn't match the music at all.
If you kinda liked the song Mike Wint posted abouve you might want to google up the album I suggested" Live in the air age" it has in my estamation more appeal for the masses I guess you could say.
One of these days I'll figure out how to post links but right now i gotta head to work.

 

[wuzak]

 

[JAG88]

Well...



Lol!

There we go, I thought of this video that addressed this very point, but it took me a bit to find it, so when I finally managed to do it someone else had already posted it a few minutes before me...

 

[swampyankee]

Sometimes we tend to conflate performer's talent with their musical choices. Case in point: Lady Gaga, who is a very capable singer, as one can hear with, for example, her duets with Tony Bennett.

Or get nostalgic about past performers, like Carol Channing and Ethel Merman, neither of whom could sing worth a damn. One sounded like a foghorn and the other like a bandsaw hitting a nail.