mosquitoman
Master Sergeant
I just thought it was a closer match than the Spit/190 thread. Which one's better?
Which is better: P-47 or Fw-190?
- Thread starter mosquitoman
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cheddar cheese
Major General
Fw-190 
cheddar cheese
Major General
I think a P-47N would be good match up for the Fw-190D-9
cheddar cheese
Major General
I agree in that respect, also is tougher as well. Sneaky feeling that the D-9 is more manouverable though.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Does anyone have stats on P-47 vs -190D kills?
This site features a head to head test of a captured FW-190 and a P-47. Scroll down to P47 VS: FW190.
http://www.lanpartyworld.com/ww2/alliedair.htm
The P-47 was outfitted with a toothpick propeller.
The FW-190 was the winner.
Francis Gabreski commented on how the P-47 stacked up against its opponents in an interview. (You can read this interview on the Stories forum under Interview With Francis Gabreski)
CUNNINGHAM: How did your P47s compare to the German fighters?
GABRESKI: Well, Bob, it all depends on what P-47 you're talking about. The early P-47 - which was the basic airplane - had a very thin propeller, although it was a four-bladed propeller. It didn't have water injection. It didn't have all the niceties of the P-47D20 that came into the theater sometime in the latter part of, uh ... well, it was actually about March of 1944. So the improvement that we had (was) water injection, which gave you a power increase of from 52 inches of mercury to about 72 inches of mercury, which was a tremendous boost in power and performance. Then you had tremendous visibility with the teardrop canopy. You could cover your tail and look out freely without the crossbars kinda' restricting your vision. So I would say that the P-47I finally went down with on July 20, 1944, was one of the finest little airplanes that I have ever flown. It was more than a match for the Focke-Wulf 190. It was more than a match for the 109. I had absolutely no problem as long as I used water injection, and I used it quite frequently. We had water injection that would, with sustained power, keep us there for about three minutes up to five minutes, depending upon how you use it. But it gave us that tremendous edge that we needed against the German Luftwaffe.
http://www.lanpartyworld.com/ww2/alliedair.htm
The P-47 was outfitted with a toothpick propeller.
The FW-190 was the winner.
Francis Gabreski commented on how the P-47 stacked up against its opponents in an interview. (You can read this interview on the Stories forum under Interview With Francis Gabreski)
CUNNINGHAM: How did your P47s compare to the German fighters?
GABRESKI: Well, Bob, it all depends on what P-47 you're talking about. The early P-47 - which was the basic airplane - had a very thin propeller, although it was a four-bladed propeller. It didn't have water injection. It didn't have all the niceties of the P-47D20 that came into the theater sometime in the latter part of, uh ... well, it was actually about March of 1944. So the improvement that we had (was) water injection, which gave you a power increase of from 52 inches of mercury to about 72 inches of mercury, which was a tremendous boost in power and performance. Then you had tremendous visibility with the teardrop canopy. You could cover your tail and look out freely without the crossbars kinda' restricting your vision. So I would say that the P-47I finally went down with on July 20, 1944, was one of the finest little airplanes that I have ever flown. It was more than a match for the Focke-Wulf 190. It was more than a match for the 109. I had absolutely no problem as long as I used water injection, and I used it quite frequently. We had water injection that would, with sustained power, keep us there for about three minutes up to five minutes, depending upon how you use it. But it gave us that tremendous edge that we needed against the German Luftwaffe.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
DAVIDICUS said:
Great site Davidicus, but after reading that report I don't think the -190 is a clear "winner." There were many situations where the -47 out turned it, climbed and dived away from it. I think this report just verified what was already known about the earlier -47s. DIVE, DIVE, DIVE
The P-47N wouldn't have a tough time against any Fw-190A then. The Fw-190D would certainly be a different story though. A close call though. It certainly would not be easy pickings for either aircraft.
One thing I am certain of though is the armament, it was much better for a dogfight on the P-47 than on the Fw-190. Eight Browning M3 .50cal against two MG151/20 and two MG131 in the D-9.
One thing I am certain of though is the armament, it was much better for a dogfight on the P-47 than on the Fw-190. Eight Browning M3 .50cal against two MG151/20 and two MG131 in the D-9.
In addition, at very low altitude, the P-47 could hold its own.
It's impressive to bear in mind that the test P-47 weighed about 5,000lbs more than the test FW-190.
I bet the paddle bladed P-47D was a real handful for the Luftwaffe per Gabreski's comments.
It's impressive to bear in mind that the test P-47 weighed about 5,000lbs more than the test FW-190.
I bet the paddle bladed P-47D was a real handful for the Luftwaffe per Gabreski's comments.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Agreed - and I think when the propellers were changed is when the -47 really started doing damage!
A side-note: The Fw-190 used in that test, used a not-properly working engine. And AFAIK it was an A/8.
At 0-7000 ft alt, the 190 would outturn the P-47D, and even more so at high speed. At 10.000 ft+ alt, the P-47 however becomes superior.
Against the Fw-190D-9, the P-47D didnt stand much chance in a dogfight. The Fw-190D-9 could outturn, out-climb, and out-roll the P-47D at all speeds, wich gives the D-9 an edge which would be allmost impossible for the P-47D to overcome. The fight would have to start high up, if the P-47 would be to stand much chance, and luckely that happened many times when escorting bombers.
As a dogfighter, the Fw-190 is clearly the superior airplane, whilst as an escort fighter the P-47D is superior.
At 0-7000 ft alt, the 190 would outturn the P-47D, and even more so at high speed. At 10.000 ft+ alt, the P-47 however becomes superior.
Against the Fw-190D-9, the P-47D didnt stand much chance in a dogfight. The Fw-190D-9 could outturn, out-climb, and out-roll the P-47D at all speeds, wich gives the D-9 an edge which would be allmost impossible for the P-47D to overcome. The fight would have to start high up, if the P-47 would be to stand much chance, and luckely that happened many times when escorting bombers.
As a dogfighter, the Fw-190 is clearly the superior airplane, whilst as an escort fighter the P-47D is superior.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Agree!
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
plan_D said:
I think it would give a 190D a very good fight, each aircraft will have the edge in certain situations. Pilot skill will definitely come into play.
The P-47N could outperform the "D" model in all respects. The below excerpt concerns testing of the "N" model.
From: http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic8.html
Test comparisons were made with a P-47D-30-RE throughout the early portion of the evaluation period. Much to everyone's surprise, the XP-47N, with its greater wingspan and higher weight actually proved to have better roll performance than the D model. At 250 mph TAS, the N attained a maximum roll rate just over 100 degrees/second. The P-47D-30-RE could manage but 85 degrees/second at the same speed. At higher speeds, the N widened the gap further.
In mock combat with a P-47D-25-RE, the new fighter proved to be notably superior in every category of performance. In short, the XP-47 waxed the venerable D model regardless of who was piloting the older fighter. The new wing was part of this newfound dogfighting ability, however, the more powerful C series engine played a role too. The additional horsepower allowed the N to retain its energy better than the older Thunderbolt.
Perhaps the greatest performance increase was in maximum speed. Though not as fast as the stunning P-47M, the heavier N was fully 40 mph faster than the P-47D-25-RE and could generate speeds 30 mph greater than its principal rival, the Mustang. Scorching along at 467 mph @ 32,000 ft., the N could not be caught by any fighter in regular service with any air force on earth with the single exception of its M model sibling. This combination of wing and engine had pushed the N model up to the top rank of the superlative prop driven fighters then in existence.
From: http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic8.html
Test comparisons were made with a P-47D-30-RE throughout the early portion of the evaluation period. Much to everyone's surprise, the XP-47N, with its greater wingspan and higher weight actually proved to have better roll performance than the D model. At 250 mph TAS, the N attained a maximum roll rate just over 100 degrees/second. The P-47D-30-RE could manage but 85 degrees/second at the same speed. At higher speeds, the N widened the gap further.
In mock combat with a P-47D-25-RE, the new fighter proved to be notably superior in every category of performance. In short, the XP-47 waxed the venerable D model regardless of who was piloting the older fighter. The new wing was part of this newfound dogfighting ability, however, the more powerful C series engine played a role too. The additional horsepower allowed the N to retain its energy better than the older Thunderbolt.
Perhaps the greatest performance increase was in maximum speed. Though not as fast as the stunning P-47M, the heavier N was fully 40 mph faster than the P-47D-25-RE and could generate speeds 30 mph greater than its principal rival, the Mustang. Scorching along at 467 mph @ 32,000 ft., the N could not be caught by any fighter in regular service with any air force on earth with the single exception of its M model sibling. This combination of wing and engine had pushed the N model up to the top rank of the superlative prop driven fighters then in existence.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Another nice site Davy!
Erich
the old Sage
the only stats with Jugs and Doras would be with the 8th AF 56th fg. Am sure there were very few incidents ..............
