Which side arm?

[Matt308]

.45 has more recoil than 9mm, 1911's were getting old, 1911 single action was viewed as less than ideal (unsafe to scoot and shoot with sidearm cocked and locked), more 9mm can fit in clip, NATO adopted round, and average soldier skill level was [supposedly] better matched with 9mm.

I love my Beretta. However, the grip circumference is too large for small handed people. The trigger reach is ridiculous in double action, but if maintained the action is smooth as butter right out of the box with no tuning.

I like the 1911, like the round, but hate the hammerbite with the GI grip safety.

My philosophy is don't lose your rifle. However, any hit with any caliber pistol/revolver is better than a miss. And with a DE .50AE, you are going to miss. A lot. Makes a better boat anchor.

My choice? In order of preference

1) Glock 22

2) CZ-75

3) Browning HiPower

You can't beat a Glock for simplicity, maintenance, and sheer ruggedness.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I love my Beretta. However, the grip circumference is too large for small handed people. The trigger reach is ridiculous in double action, but if maintained the action is smooth as butter right out of the box with no tuning.

I can not stand my Baretta. It has been used to much and over the years just cant hack it anymore. The parts are constantly having to be replaced such as the spring and what not. Dont like the stopping power of it either.

 

[Erich]

curious Chris were you guys ever issued special .45 auto's ? nothing like a mini gun with 15-18 round special "silly" clips

 

[lesofprimus]

Soren, said situation happened in Somolia...

And as far as the "What if" situation, I would use what I always used for CQC, a stumped sawed off Mossberg with 00 shot... Saved my life several times...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

curious Chris were you guys ever issued special .45 auto's ? nothing like a mini gun with 15-18 round special "silly" clips

Nope we were issued per aircraft 4 Baretta 9mm, 2 M-60D Machine Guns, and 2 M-4 Carbines.

 

[lonestarman63]

S F C Angelford was my old friend in the Army , told me when we they were just talking about the 9 mm as a replacement to the 1911 A1 he jokenly said the biggest diff between 9 mm and the ole 1911 was with 9 mm shoot at a truck , you had to hit the driver in the head , with the 1911 you shot the truck

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

More rounds pr clip, thats pretty much it.

sounds like the Americans

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Sometimes that can be a good thing Lanc.

 

[Vassili Zaitzev]

What about the Heckler and Koch VP70, it has an 18 round clip instead of the 15 round clip the Beretta offers.

 

[lesofprimus]

With a heavy and long trigger pull, it does not help to improve accuracy.... And its also a 9mm.....

As this thread is titled, for Special Operations, the need for stopping power is paramount, and the 9mm round does not hack it...

If we need to continue this, lets revolve around the heavier cartridges, such as the .40 cal, which is the most ideally suited for the scope of this discussion....

As I said at the beginning of this thread, the Heckler and Koch Mark 23 .40 S&W,

which is currently the weapon of choice for USSOCOM Operators, is the sidearm to beat...

 

[Soren]

Soren, said situation happened in Somolia...

And as far as the "What if" situation, I would use what I always used for CQC, a stumped sawed off Mossberg with 00 shot... Saved my life several times...

Agreed completely, nothing beats a shotgun up-close...

But as to which is the best Spec Ops pistol, well overall you're probably right Les, today it is the .40cal HK Mk.23, but in some key area's I know my P210 will still beat the crap out of it though.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Id with the same as well. HK makes some damn good guns. I have a friend that was supposed to start working for HK. Not sure if he did though or not.

 

[Soren]

 

[Matt308]

As I said at the beginning of this thread, the Heckler and Koch Mark 23 .40 S&W,

which is currently the weapon of choice for USSOCOM Operators, is the sidearm to beat...

Mark 23? Too big. If I were relegated to HK, I'd rather have the USP. If you must have threaded barrel, and for SOF its a must, than the USP tactical. You can't go wrong with HK. But you will pay for that quality.

 

[Matt308]

Soren, the P210 IS a nice gun. However, talk about price is no object! That gem is way over $1000 bucks here in US. Wish I had one! But, 9mm and 8rds on this frame is old technology. As much as I adore Sig Sauer, its based on the French 1935...and I hate giving the French credit for anything positive. Glock 22 is .40 and holds 17+1 with 2rd mag extension. Still my running favorite.

 

[MacArther]

and I hate giving the French credit for anything positive.

Amen to that!! Anyway, anyone know of the Baby Eagle's ability as a sidearm or just a fire arm in terms of kick, accuracy, etc.? I ask, because most of the people I asked bought a Baby and then a full-sized Desert Eagle, so I think their just a tiny bit biased.

 

[Matt308]

Never fired one. However, if I recall correctly they are basically a CZ-75 clone (frame rails on the inside instead of the outside like Glock or 1911). As I noted above you can't go wrong with a CZ-75. You can get the Baby Eagle in 9mm, .40 or .45. The .40 is going to have more kick with the 180 grain bullets and the .45 with the 230 grain, but then again both are more powerful than 9mm. All reviews I have read were generally positive. If you don't shoot much, get the 9mm. .45 has some kick, but it is more like a push compared to the snap of the .40. Higher pressures for the .40. What you don't want is a gun that teaches you a bad flinching habit. Once you get one, its hard to teach yourself otherwise. Believe me I know firsthand.

 

[Glider]

I am pretty sure I can speak for all those this side of the pond, who would love to be able to experience these and join the debate.

 

[Matt308]

Glider. As an NRA member I do sympathize with you. Unfortunately, our time is coming I'm afraid. Too many liberal feminist healthcare for all save the whales tree hugging animal rights before human rights vegan atheists who want to tax the nation into prosperity with equal rights for equal work except for 9 months of maternity leave type folks. However, I'm doing my share to support 2nd amendment rights. You can do your part by rebutting anti-gun comments in the paper, in magazines, and other venues. Perhaps things will turn in the other direction. The pro rights folks don't argue based on emotions and thus we tend to become the silent majority.

 

[Soren]

Soren, the P210 IS a nice gun. However, talk about price is no object! That gem is way over $1000 bucks here in US. Wish I had one!

Wow, didn't know it was that expensive in the US, and to think both of mine were given to me

But, 9mm and 8rds on this frame is old technology. As much as I adore Sig Sauer, its based on the French 1935...and I hate giving the French credit for anything positive.

Besides its safety feature, the fact that it holds only 8 rounds is the only minus you're going to find on that gun - its accuracy is unrivalled, and its high muzzle velocity gives it great penetrative performance and decent stopping power if expanding bullets are used. Consistently hitting a 2" target at 50m, no problem !

Glock 22 is .40 and holds 17+1 with 2rd mag extension. Still my running favorite.

Sounds attractive but to be honest I never liked the Glock, have shot the Glock 17 myself, but I didn't like it at all. I'd much rather like the CZ-75 in .40 cal or the FN Browning HP then.

Now if you want a really good .40cal pistol I'd recommend the P226, that gun just shoots like a dream !